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Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

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Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#121
post #89
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am just explaining the reasoning. Don't hate/downvote me for saying it ... Silencing people's political opinions (even horrible evil people) is considered bad. This is why donations to these evil organizations is tolerated. Wikileaks is being blacklisted not because of their political opinions, but because these organizations, rightly or wrongly, believe Wikileaks is threatening security of the nation, causing deat…

> And last but not least, Wikileaks seems to be actively perusing leaks in banks and financial organizations. If you bite the hand that feeds you ... The banks are not "feeding" Wikileaks. The people are.

It wouldn't seem so in this case. The people may very well feed wikileaks, but only with the permission of the banks, and if the banks feel that it is not in their best interest to allow it, they won't abide. I would like to say, however, that I don't think this is right, I just believe that it this is how it is. In truth, Wikileaks (whether you agree with them or not) being silenced by world powers makes any sort of change/revolution seem a remote possibility.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#122
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen anything like Fox News anywhere else?

Brazilian mainstream media is also very partisan-biased, though they won't ever admit it and always strive to come out as politically neutral. While there's a left-centrist party in office, not one positive news is to be shown in mass media vehicles, even when the president receives an international award, the people are kept in the dark about it and you have to follow alternative news to be informed. This discrepanc…

I think Fox News takes it beyond partisan-bias and into extreme propaganda territory.

See for example this:

Universal Health Care is the Jihadists' secret weapon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMu6wCqdeyQ

Not carrying guns suggests Norway is not a democracy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EX3km583Dw

For News successfully argues in court that it is allowed to lie in its news: http://www.relfe.com/media_can_legally_lie.html

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#123
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you explain why they shouldn't be? i can't think of any reason why a government should expect a right to privacy from their own citizens. the government should work for the people, and they should have a responsibility to provide full disclosure to their citizens. the only reason the government should want to keep things secret from their own people is if they aren't working in our best interests.

It's more to keep the cables from everyone else. They were intended as context-sensitive commentary from diplomats to the US. They were not intended for general release, and as such, contain information and observations that were intended to give the US an advantage over their counterparts at a later time. That is why they're "secret". They're not supposed to be viewed by any other country. If they are freely availab…

If these cables are available to hundreds of thousands of personnel, they're also already freely available to other countries, most likely.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#124
post #117
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can't imagine how Wikileaks can be considered a so much more evil organisation than Stormfront I can, in spirit, though I wouldn't necessarily use the term "evil" as the comparator. Stormfront generates bigotry and hate speech. Distasteful and contempible. But Wikileaks spreads as widely as possible information which can pose real security risks to people (such as US soldiers). As a Jew, I'd rather see people supp…

How does Wikileaks threaten soldiers? It's not as if they have a live feed from the battlefield, or their own satellite. Also, they seem to scan stuff before they release it. This "threat" really seems to be blown out of proportion. And what if a Jewish soldier is captured in battle and his enemies are avid readers of Stormfront?

It seems to be one of those things the media and politicians repeated so many times that people started to accept it as truth. I still haven't seen a reliable link between a release and someone dying.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, consider this an IOU. I have to run and give a brown bag, and I will enumerate my reasons when i get back.

I didn't appreciate that the edit link expires. So the problem I have with Assange is, ultimately, that he's a terrible journalist. He's not even a good gonzo journalist. He made the epic mistake of letting the story become about him, and worse yet, making sure that Wikileaks's fortunes (both literally and figuratively) were directly tied to his. He did that in that Wikileaks is paying directly for his legal defenses…

Your point that Wikileaks is imperfect is certainly true. But do you know of any perfect institutions?

Assange was intentionally the lightning rod. Within Wikileaks his role is similar to Rumsfeld's in the Bush administration. He takes lots of criticism, personal attacks, etc.

The strategy of those wishing to shut down Wikileaks has been to attempt to vilify Assange. This is to be expected. Yes, Assange should have been more careful about who he slept with, but can you blame him at this point for trying to clear his name and stay out of prison?

The release of the password and some of the other organizational challenges that Wikileaks has faced could be the result of a sloppily run organization, or they could be due to someone on the inside being bought off, etc. To accuse Assange of having the motive of self-aggrandizement (considering that he's the only one who has put himself at risk for assassination, prison, etc.) seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction.

One thing to consider is that Assange is a poor judge of character -- he misjudged his publishing company, the two female accusers, and probably at least one of the core Wikileaks team members. So yes, Assange has lost a few points... but are you really ready to write him off? This is a guy with exceptionally uncommon courage and will, and he's up against professional intelligence organizations.

Wikileaks has been slowly learning how to do its own proactive PR, how to resist infiltration, etc. We're talking about a very small organization (a startup of sorts) that has had a few growing pains. I think the jury is still out on whether the organization will fizzle out or will continue to gain credibility, integrity, etc.

So far, I think the trend has been that Wikileaks has learned from its mistakes. It has been rather astonishing to me to see the extent to which companies and governments have gone into attack mode against Wikileaks and Assange. For every attack, subterfuge, and machination that has been public there have likely been dozens of others attempted. While these may have succeeded in ways we do not yet know in dealing a death blow to Wikileaks, I think it's too soon to write the organization off. Assange has inspired a lot of people that even in today's world a small number of dedicated people can make large and corrupt organizations very uncomfortable.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#127
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Stormfront is not all talk and their actions have easily endangered more lives than Wikileaks has. How? What violent or dangerous actions have they taken? >This is the largest online community of neo-nazis on the web, for fuck's sake! What do you think they do, drum circles and interpretive dance?? No, I think they make posts on the internet about Jews controlling the world economy, sell racist bumper stickers, etc.…

> How? What violent or dangerous actions have they taken? I'm afraid I can only relate anecdotal observations, but my corner of the Midwest does sadly host an active Neo-Nazi population. A couple of my friends in the city where I live have been violently assaulted and injured by self-professed Neo-Nazis (and strangers) venturing here from rural counties looking for trouble to start. Likewise, I have a couple times se…

I don't think Stormfront are nice guys, don't get me wrong, but hosting threads by people being vaguely threatening, or sharing an ideology but no affiliation with people who happen to have been violent, doesn't seem sufficient for a bank to block donations to them.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#128
post #108

I'm impressed by the amount of comments here that point out some (perceived) hypocrisy in the actions of Wikileaks or Assange. This isn't the point. I myself don't really know what to think of Wikileaks. I, however, do know that major banks and financial institutions find it perfectly okay for you to send money to all kinds of horrible organisations (say, the Ku Klux Klan, clubs that campaign for underage sex, Westbo…

> If Wikileaks were a terrorist organisation (blowing up buildings and people and whatnot), I'd understand governments to force a ban. We're pretty sure they're not considered a terrorist organization... right?

Yeah. If your country is allergic to the truth, your country is wrong.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#129
post #104
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Stormfront is not all talk and their actions have easily endangered more lives than Wikileaks has. How? What violent or dangerous actions have they taken? >This is the largest online community of neo-nazis on the web, for fuck's sake! What do you think they do, drum circles and interpretive dance?? No, I think they make posts on the internet about Jews controlling the world economy, sell racist bumper stickers, etc.…

The stuff Wikileaks has released has had all the really sensitive stuff (like, names) removed, right? So, then, isn't the threat that Wikileaks represents mostly indirect (i.e. it might incite civil unrest if people knew what their governments were actually doing)? If that's the case, then, why defend hate speech and not Wikileaks? It seems to me that hate speech also has the very real potential of inciting violence…

It wouldn't be Wikileaks causing the riot, it'd be the people - disgusted with what they find out is being done in their names.

Wikileaks is doing what the press should have done years ago. What we need to know enough to look for in the future even if nobody spells it out for us.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#130
post #111
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen anything like Fox News anywhere else?

I think TV journalism isn't American media's stronger suite, but you could fairly say that globally Fox News is the rule rather than the exception.

Government-bias may well be more common than not, or than commercial advertiser-biased. The difference between those countries and the US is consumer education. At least outside of the US the viewers / listeners / readers know they're not getting an unbiased perspective.
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