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The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

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Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#31

Post by fredley »

bambax wrote: post #28

I am kind of ashamed to bring this anecdote in a comment to such a high brow article, but it should be noted that "Ode to Joy" was the villain's song in the first "Die Hard" movie. It's played when the bad guys finally open the vault. The chief villain, Hans Gruber, is himself, of course, German and has received "a classical education". (The director, McTiernan, had noticed the use of Ode to Joy in A Clockwork Orange…

The use of Ode to Joy in A Clockwork Orange is not incidental. In the original novel Alex is obsessed with classical music and Beethoven in particular. When he is subjected to the Ludovico technique it is Ode to Joy that is playing, which renders him unable to enjoy his passion any more.

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#32

Post by denton-scratch »

The author does make it clear that Ode To Joy was by Schiller, not by Beethoven; but for me it grates that throughout the article (as well as in the title) he refers to "Beethoven's Ode to Joy", instead of "Beethoven's 9th Symphony". The chorale movement is only a part of the work; and the ode wasn't written by Beethoven.

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#33

Post by MauranKilom »

teruakohatu wrote: post #12
gumby wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't understand special relativity, much less general (or the photoelectric effect) so it's not at all a given that Einstein will remain a household name. Nowadays "Hitler" is the default bad guy but before him it was "Napoleon" in much of Europe, and before that "Pharaoh". I'm pretty sure the same will happen to $DEFAULT_SMART_GUY

We (collectively) remember Newton, even if the average person doesn't understand gravity beyond "keeps us on the ground" or calculus. We can go back thousands of years and we still remember Pythagoras. Einstein's association with nuclear energy will be what keeps his memory alive.

I challenge the assumption that the average person associates nuclear energy with Einstein (or the other way around).

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#34

Post by jethkl »

Late Beethoven works are astonishing. The Great Fugue [1,2] is also remarkable -- fiendishly tough on both audiences and players. It is hard to believe it was written during the early 19th century. The fugue also has an interesting story: originally the 4th movement of a quartet, its terrible reception caused the publisher to request a new 4th movement, and the fugue became a standalone piece. The best description I've heard of it is from Stravinsky: "a contemporary piece of music that will be contemporary forever".

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grosse_Fuge

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13ygvpIg-S0

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#35

Post by lupire »

codeflo wrote: post #25
ternaryoperator wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then he found out she got engaged, and he made the rest of the song super difficult so she could never play it. It is very unlikely that this story is anything more than a fanciful tale: The dedicatee of the piece is unknown; the work was found in papers long after Beethoven's death and was unknown before that. So, the prospect of there being someone who was told the story and wrote it down, even though it's record…

Speculation is fun, if you’re aware that you’re not doing science. Another fun theory I’ve read is that the piece was called “Für X” for different values of X at different times. According to this theory, Beethoven intentionally didn’t publish it so that he could continue to use the same piece to impress different women, “Look what I wrote for you”. Efficient.

The Beautiful South, Song For Whoever: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J-q_gAM1BXQ

Bo Burnham, Repeat Stuff: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nt9c0UeYhFc

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#36

Post by lupire »

gumby wrote: post #10
frosted-flakes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a name like Einstein will stick around though. It's too embedded in the public consciousness to disappear, and his breakthroughs are too big to forget.

Most people don't understand special relativity, much less general (or the photoelectric effect) so it's not at all a given that Einstein will remain a household name. Nowadays "Hitler" is the default bad guy but before him it was "Napoleon" in much of Europe, and before that "Pharaoh". I'm pretty sure the same will happen to $DEFAULT_SMART_GUY

Archimedes?

Plato?

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#37

Post by tgv »

kieckerjan wrote: post #23
coldcode wrote: post #2

Nothing any of us do today will exist in 500 years, but I suspect Beethoven's Ninth will continue to inspire.

> I suspect Beethoven's Ninth will continue to inspire I hope and suspect so, but taste is a fickle thing. It may be hard to believe but Bach, nowadays considered by many as the greatest composer ever, almost faded into obscurity.

The problem was, as often, that works fade out of fashion quickly and are put aside. Bach's style had been superseded by (the precursors to) Classical, and sounded old-fashioned at the end of the 18th century. It didn't take very long for it to be rediscovered, though: some 80 years. Rediscovering isn't even the correct word: the tradition was kept alive, but a bit underground. Mendelssohn got his inspiration from his teacher (Zelter), who had a profound love for Bach, and probably also from his aunt Sarah Levy who had studied with Bach's eldest son (W.F. Bach) and supported another (C.Ph.E).

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#38

Post by matt-attack »

bowsamic wrote: post #29
kieckerjan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect Beethoven's Ninth will continue to inspire I hope and suspect so, but taste is a fickle thing. It may be hard to believe but Bach, nowadays considered by many as the greatest composer ever, almost faded into obscurity.

Not hard to believe, even now Bach is considered an acquired taste

“Ahhhh Bach”

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#39

Post by Bud »

denton-scratch wrote: post #32

The author does make it clear that Ode To Joy was by Schiller, not by Beethoven; but for me it grates that throughout the article (as well as in the title) he refers to "Beethoven's Ode to Joy", instead of "Beethoven's 9th Symphony". The chorale movement is only a part of the work; and the ode wasn't written by Beethoven.

If it helps, it's really ok; the German title is "An die Freude". This was the title of Schiller's poem, and it's also the title of the final choral movement of Beethoven 9. So the usage is correct. It's right there on the title page of the score in every German edition. (I have three.)

Source: me. I've sung as the soloist in Beethoven 9 numerous times.

Re: The story behind Beethoven's “Ode to Joy”

#40

Post by Bud »

bowsamic wrote: post #29
kieckerjan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect Beethoven's Ninth will continue to inspire I hope and suspect so, but taste is a fickle thing. It may be hard to believe but Bach, nowadays considered by many as the greatest composer ever, almost faded into obscurity.

Not hard to believe, even now Bach is considered an acquired taste

But many are acquiring it. Source: me. I have sung Bach for a living in my life. :)
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