What would a recession mean for developers?
blog.boot.dev
What would a recession mean for developers?
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Re: What would a recession mean for developers?
#2The market being harder for juniors seems correct from what I’m seeing. I’ve been looking frequently for the last month to see what’s out there, and virtually no one I’ve noticed is seeking junior developers.
Re: What would a recession mean for developers?
#3The market being harder for juniors seems correct from what I’m seeing. I’ve been looking frequently for the last month to see what’s out there, and virtually no one I’ve noticed is seeking junior developers.
Unless it’s a “junior” developer with 5 years of experience willing to “wear multiple hats” and “go the extra mile to deliver requirements.”
Re: What would a recession mean for developers?
#4[deleted]
Re: What would a recession mean for developers?
#5The market being harder for juniors seems correct from what I’m seeing. I’ve been looking frequently for the last month to see what’s out there, and virtually no one I’ve noticed is seeking junior developers.
I haven't really paid attention to that market for quite a while, but when I was actively looking for a job as a junior dev in SF in 2012, I remember being absolutely maddened by patio11's repeated comments the roaring demand for devs. "Anyone who can fizzbuzz" was the phrase I remember him using.
At that time I was junior, but I'd made and published 3 flash games, hacked on the UI of my WP blog quite a bit and made some basic tools with Node.js. I could definitely fizzbuzz, discuss time and space complexity, solve the equivalent of today's easy leetcode questions and more. And yet I saw my savings dwindle towards zero while reading on HN about how easy it was to get a job as a dev.
My feeling is that there's always been a considerable demand for great devs and very little demand for juniors. I've seen companies advertise positions for interns but I honestly can't recall a single time they were advertising roles for junior or entry level devs.
Re: What would a recession mean for developers?
#6The market being harder for juniors seems correct from what I’m seeing. I’ve been looking frequently for the last month to see what’s out there, and virtually no one I’ve noticed is seeking junior developers.
Unless it’s a “junior” developer with 5 years of experience willing to “wear multiple hats” and “go the extra mile to deliver requirements.”
I mean if that's what you gotta to do get your foot in the door, that's what you gotta do. My first job out of college in the late 90s took 3 months to find. I already had an internship where I did development for money and networking and workstation support. For the first job, I built the applications, designed the database, setup all the servers and all the workstations. I even crimped network cables and managed a fire/move within a week. I did everything for little pay (relative to the market, it was a living wage and I was salary + benefits) and I absolutely busted my ass to do it well. I worked there for two years and then one day, the director of customer service said she knew someone who was looking for someone and if I was interested. I said yes and that was the first Fortune 500 on my resume.
It won't be given to you (unless you're extremely lucky) but if you bust your ass like you're trying to impress the hell out of someone, people will notice and eventually, good things will happen. Always bust your ass like you're trying to impress the hell out of someone, it will take you far.
Re: What would a recession mean for developers?
#7The market being harder for juniors seems correct from what I’m seeing. I’ve been looking frequently for the last month to see what’s out there, and virtually no one I’ve noticed is seeking junior developers.
I haven't really paid attention to that market for quite a while, but when I was actively looking for a job as a junior dev in SF in 2012, I remember being absolutely maddened by patio11's repeated comments the roaring demand for devs. "Anyone who can fizzbuzz" was the phrase I remember him using. At that time I was junior, but I'd made and published 3 flash games, hacked on the UI of my WP blog quite a bit and made…
Part of the problem is perhaps that you were looking for titles explicitly coded 'junior' at all. Title inflation basically means that many devs that would basically be juniors in real engineering companies are considered senior.
It's a weird market where the difference between 0 and 1 year of experience can be so dramatically reflected in salaries and opportunities.
Re: What would a recession mean for developers?
#8The weird part of this advice to me is all the "CS fundamentals" biz. It's admittedly been quite a while since I've felt the need to go out for "junior" roles, but I have a lot of close friends who are recent boot camp grads, and it seems to me that most success in an interview boils down to interpersonal skills and confidence in problem-solving. There's a significant backlash at least in the startup space to "whiteboard coding" and fiddly little problems as assessments, which I think is overall a good thing. My own experience has taught me that smart hiring managers are more interested in you getting along with the people you'll be working with, along with your willingness to try stuff you don't already know how to do, and talk about what you do to non-technical stakeholders, and from what I've heard from my more junior-in-the-industry friends, this seems to bear out across the board
That said, none of them are targeting FAANG jobs and neither am I, so if you are, this may be wildly wrong
Re: What would a recession mean for developers?
#9I've been contacted by a number of recruiters recently who are recruiting for positions that are paying FAR more than the market average of just a few years ago. I'm talking an average increase of over 50%.
I'm honestly concerned that my entire team, after having received low percentage pay increases in the past year, is going to end up leaving within the next 4-6 months, and I'm not sure the product is capable of surviving that sort of brain drain.
I've tried to warn my manager multiple times about the situation, but he's not the kind of guy to attempt to swim against the stream with upper management.
Re: What would a recession mean for developers?
#10The market being harder for juniors seems correct from what I’m seeing. I’ve been looking frequently for the last month to see what’s out there, and virtually no one I’ve noticed is seeking junior developers.
If the funnel for juniors tightens up for a couple years, won't the shortage for senior+ worsen down the road? I see this as overall bad for innovation.