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S.F. population fell 6.3%, most in nation, to lowest level since 2010

sfchronicle.com

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Re: S.F. population fell 6.3%, most in nation, to lowest level since 2010

#351

Post by vineyardmike »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #111
ceeplusplus wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like most major cities I have lived in or visited Boston, Chicago, North Carolina's RTP, and the Bay. Only in SF are there homeless camps with blatant drug abuse and public defecation being tolerated by authorities. Only in SF can you run into, with 100% probability, a mentally deranged person on your daily commute. When "specific streets" cover half the city (Financial district, Tenderloin, SoMA, Mission...) they…

The other cities listed are very cold at times and/or very humid/hot at times. It is much easier and pleasant to camp outside in western cities.

…which makes people less sympathetic to the homeless, and feel less compelled to take real action to get them off the street.

Re: S.F. population fell 6.3%, most in nation, to lowest level since 2010

#352

Post by heiniunai »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #306
fennecfoxen wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual, the “speculators” and “out of towners” and others are convenient scapegoats, lest we have to face the underlying supply and demand and barriers to development. You want to have a monopoly on housing in a major city? I’d be hard pressed to point out an industry where that would be harder . You have literally millions of competitors.

San Francisco is already the second most densely populated city in the USA (the first being NYC). SF is actually already slightly more densely populated than Tokyo, which many like to tout as a mecha for de-regulated zoning.

With around 6,300 people per km2, "it is similar in terms of population density to San Francisco. In Tokyo’s 23 wards, however, the density is 15,381 people per km2, making it 50% higher than New York City as a whole."

https://japanpropertycentral.com/2021/12/housing-in-tokyo-is...

The 23 wards of Tokyo are 5 times the land area of SF city proper.

Re: S.F. population fell 6.3%, most in nation, to lowest level since 2010

#353

Post by erik_seaberg »

8note wrote: post #153
floren wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, the blob of suburbia is spread out in a ring around a giant body of water, and it's almost certain that the place you want to go is on the other side. So now it's 1+ hours on trains (assuming they even run near your destination) or dealing with the eternal traffic jams at the chokepoints across the bay.

Are there no water taxis? In Vancouver you just hop on a small boat and get a quick trip across, I think with your bus pass

The highway bridges are heavily used, but the southern shores of San Francisco Bay are mostly either salt ponds or swamps and marshes under protection orders (this is also why there’s no on-campus housing at the Googleplex), with nothing much in walking distance.

There’s a proposal to build a ferry terminal in Redwood City, but that’s still pretty far from the densest part of the south bay.

Re: S.F. population fell 6.3%, most in nation, to lowest level since 2010

#354

Post by [deleted] »

deltaonefour wrote: post #98
scelerat wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny, I moved to SF and landed a tech job, in that order. I moved to the Bay Area for certain things above a job. I know there are others like me, perhaps not a majority of the HN crowd, but I quite like it here and it would take a lot for me to change my mind about the place.

Lots of reasons why people hate SF. The homeless problems, the petty crime. The smell, the dirtiness, the shitty weather, the actual danger of stepping on human feces, the drug use. To each their own, but I think it's important for people to get out of their headspace and see things from a more general perspective as well. There are very good reasons why people don't like SF and unless people who love the city acknow…

[deleted]

Re: S.F. population fell 6.3%, most in nation, to lowest level since 2010

#355

Post by lmeyerov »

rustybelt wrote: post #159
lmeyerov wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in the same spot in the mission for 10+ years (and been around longer), and other folks in the building for 20+: the mission hasn't regressed to the gang wars era (we have stories there...), but between the break-ins, homeless tents, poop & drugs, crazy people shouting at 4am, and occasional shootings, the neighborhood has slid back 10-15 years. Luckily I've only witnessed 1 murder, so the crime is merely…

I spent a decade in St. Louis, MO, famously rated "Most Dangerous City in America" multiple years running and witnessed 0 murders. How many murders would you need to witness before you start to worry about your own safety?

Yep :)

Unfortunately, guns is a US problem, not a SF one. Within that, most violence is between people who know each other, so that's a funny one to work through. We moved our Oakland office to SF not long after watching a drive-by shooting of a downtown subway bus stop during a product strategy meeting: avoiding being the collateral damage is the tricky calculation here.

I am indeed moving out, but due to the city failing at its homeless programs + the historic property crime levels. (Parking a car shouldn't be a game of chance where you factor in the chance of theft & broken windows into the meter cost!) Simply going outside is annoying at this point, while there are amazing areas all around the bay area where that's still a joy.

Re: S.F. population fell 6.3%, most in nation, to lowest level since 2010

#357

Post by jimmont »

webwielder2 wrote: post #227

Serious question: what's another place in the US with mild year-round weather, walkable neighborhoods (haven't driven a car in 12 years), and easy access to an international airport? That's what SF offers me. The "SF is an unlivable hellhole" drumbeat is so loud that I almost feel compelled to move (my own experience be damned), but I'm not sure where to.

There is no such place in the US. And SF is not it either. San Jose appears to be steadily improving, though this is not a recommendation at all. This is my perspective traveling and living around the northern hemisphere awhile, including substantive time in SF. Manchester NH is within an easy Uber ride of BOS and may be of interest. Winters aren't so great but you can easily fly as far south as Puerto Rico, which has massive crime problems and barely functioning government. There are obviously various options in between. My opinion is that the US is generally inhospitable, SF included, and is unlikely to change substantively in the next several decades. California could start banging out housing, improve transit and reform healthcare delivery and it would probably take at least 20 years to catch up... to what you'll easily find outside the country. America is at the stagnation point in transition through institutional and socio-economic cycles based on what I understand and the solutions aren't super clear at the moment--at least not as clear as the problems.

Re: S.F. population fell 6.3%, most in nation, to lowest level since 2010

#358

Post by CSMastermind »

jdhn wrote: post #133
toomuchtodo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see far more California vehicle tags in Central Florida than I would've expected.

When you look in the cars, are they older people? Where I live (western Florida), it's generally older people and not the demographic that you'd expect to find on this site.

I just moved NYC to Florida and I've been shocked how many other people have done the same. Florida is doing a relatively good job of attracting high end tech talent as far as I can tell. Texas is the other place I hear mentioned a lot.

Re: S.F. population fell 6.3%, most in nation, to lowest level since 2010

#359

Post by vonwoodson »

joemazerino wrote: post #356

Rampant and near-encouraged crime forced the hands of my SF friends to move. Some pass it off as a standard of living situation but they all moved to low crime Red states..

https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-red-state-murder-problem

Takeaways:

+ The rate of murders in the US has gone up at an alarming rate. But, despite a media narrative to the contrary, this is a problem that afflicts Republican-run cities and states as much or more than the Democratic bastions.

+In 2020, per capita murder rates were 40% higher in states won by Donald Trump than those won by Joe Biden.

+ 8 of the 10 states with the highest murder rates in 2020 voted for the Republican presidential nominee in every election this century.

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