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Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

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Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#241

Post by aa-jv »

alexb_ wrote: post #63

This thread is also a good read: https://twitter.com/Aella_Girl/status/1522633160483385345 Shows that a lot of people, ESPECIALLY programmers, vastly overestimate the competence of the average person when it comes to whatever they are an expert at. You may think that this person is silly - but that is tainted by your past experience of already knowing it warping what you think the baseline average knowledge level is…

> vastly overestimate the competence of the average person

Computers have gotten vastly more complicated to program than they used to be.

The reason for this is, other programmers are not really motivated to make it easy.

It is also wise not to underestimate the fact that intentionally incompetent interfaces make it all a ball of puke. Most programmers are puke surfers these days, maybe not so much in in the embedded world so, but for sure up front in the ''mainstream'' of javascript/web development.

Just kidding, embedded has puke surfing too.

Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#242

Post by samsquire »

I don't like the annoyance of modern computing. Installing vagrant and Virtualbox and chocolatey on windows or apt get install on Lubuntu.

When you want to deploy you need to learn Kubernetes, ingress, Nginx ingress configuration, Kubectl. I've written ansible to bring up kubernetes and consul but it probably doesn't work anymore I suspect the kubeadmin has changed with the shim removal - I wrote a tool to automate everything chef, ansible, packer, aws, terraform (http://devops-pipeline.com it's a prototype and not ready for others to use but the idea of a repeatable environment stands)

It's so hard to get computers setup. When I get started with some source repository I dread reading the README.md due to it requiring a complicated build procedure.

And that's before you've even started reading the codebase.

Once you get something working you need to keep it updated and that's when things definitely go wrongm everyone refactors and changes interfaces so things stop working.

Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#243

Post by longrod »

Jasp3r wrote: post #232
longrod wrote: post #212

It's still mostly the same. Nothing much has happened in the JS space in the last 2 years that would make all this easier. The JS ecosystem suffers from a huge issue of duplication. There's multiple module systems, multiple ways to make a function, multiple ways to make a class, multiple ways to make a variable, multiple ways to loop over the array. Some of those exist in other languages as well but it's pretty bad i…

The whole issue of JavaScript is that the standard library is worthless, so people have to write additions to keep yourself sane as a developer. This makes it seem that there are 5 billion ways to do something, because there are. Just use TypeScript, it will fix all the issues you have with the language itself. Typing + build time errors + import/export syntax. If you want to run some this in the browser, and don't u…

Typescript doesn't solve any of the mentioned issues. You can't use CommonJS modules if you are targeting ES6+. And you can't use ES6 modules if you are targeting CommonJS. The only thing really useful about Typescript is types + generics (to some extent).

If you install any library that's either only ESM or CommonJS, you can't run your program. It simply doesn't work.

Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#244

Post by chiefalchemist »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #191
chiefalchemist wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps the interviewers are under-experienced, under-perpared and/or under-trained? True story: I had an interview a couple of weeks ago. I was interviewed by two people who were younger than me, and relatively less experienced than me. My CV has a number of links to repos for various side projects and such. Best I could tell, neither of them looked, at least not more than a minute. Not a single "Your ____ repo l…

My theory: most hiring absolutely doesn't matter (from the interviewer's side). Most people will either have the skills needed or the capability to learn said skills. Weeding out obvious poor cases is easy, the remainder is semi-arbitrary weeding out of true positives in hopes of weeding potential false positives. Much of higher education alone does a good job at pushing people to learn difficult things in a short ti…

Agreed. But now we're back to:

"How you hire is who you hire."

And I have a new one...

"You're not only the interviewer, you're an interviewee as well."

Understanding these two basic are essential to a decent hiring process. Ignore these and you're just another fool in a sea of fools.

Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#245

Post by nisegami »

bowsamic wrote: post #176
alexb_ wrote: post #63

This thread is also a good read: https://twitter.com/Aella_Girl/status/1522633160483385345 Shows that a lot of people, ESPECIALLY programmers, vastly overestimate the competence of the average person when it comes to whatever they are an expert at. You may think that this person is silly - but that is tainted by your past experience of already knowing it warping what you think the baseline average knowledge level is…

The person in that twitter thread clearly has some issues beyond learning Python, their response was extremely angry, dramatic, and entitled. "Angry tears welling up" is not a reasonable response to learning anything, especially when not having a deadline and just learning it for fun. To me this reads more like a mental health breakdown live streamed on twitter than of something that actually says anything about Pyth…

Aella_Girl has a reputation in other communities for being a bit unhinged, so that tracks.

Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#246

Post by [deleted] »

alexb_ wrote: post #63

This thread is also a good read: https://twitter.com/Aella_Girl/status/1522633160483385345 Shows that a lot of people, ESPECIALLY programmers, vastly overestimate the competence of the average person when it comes to whatever they are an expert at. You may think that this person is silly - but that is tainted by your past experience of already knowing it warping what you think the baseline average knowledge level is…

[deleted]

Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#247

Post by [deleted] »

longrod wrote: post #212

It's still mostly the same. Nothing much has happened in the JS space in the last 2 years that would make all this easier. The JS ecosystem suffers from a huge issue of duplication. There's multiple module systems, multiple ways to make a function, multiple ways to make a class, multiple ways to make a variable, multiple ways to loop over the array. Some of those exist in other languages as well but it's pretty bad i…

[deleted]

Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#248

Post by wruza »

It is not only javascript, the entire world of programming lacks things that just work like other non-programmer’s apps do. Most people are smart enough to automate their everything when given a set of decent tools, but instead they have to rely on smartasses who speak 90% buzzword religion and only get a vague idea of what the requirements are, cause they are mostly specialized in being themselves. I hope this “industry” will break under its weight some day and we will realize that our daily topics are irrelevant to homes and businesses. Modules vs non-modules vs node vs browser is a bullshit that should not exist, but it does, for stupidest reasons. One of them is being “amazed” by obviously average-to-questionable parts of our stacks.

Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#249

Post by [deleted] »

samsquire wrote: post #242

I don't like the annoyance of modern computing. Installing vagrant and Virtualbox and chocolatey on windows or apt get install on Lubuntu. When you want to deploy you need to learn Kubernetes, ingress, Nginx ingress configuration, Kubectl. I've written ansible to bring up kubernetes and consul but it probably doesn't work anymore I suspect the kubeadmin has changed with the shim removal - I wrote a tool to automate e…

[deleted]

Re: Today’s JavaScript, from an outsider’s perspective (2020)

#250

Post by the_only_law »

nisegami wrote: post #245
bowsamic wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person in that twitter thread clearly has some issues beyond learning Python, their response was extremely angry, dramatic, and entitled. "Angry tears welling up" is not a reasonable response to learning anything, especially when not having a deadline and just learning it for fun. To me this reads more like a mental health breakdown live streamed on twitter than of something that actually says anything about Pyth…

Aella_Girl has a reputation in other communities for being a bit unhinged, so that tracks.

May not be a popular opinion, but a lot of the “rationalist” scene often feels more like a club of sophists.
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