Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cyclists don't just conflict with cars, they conflict with Pedestrians. I've been hit by cyclists more than once. (And OK, I hit a pedestrian when I was riding a bike back when I was a teenager too.) Walking in L.A. I experience near-misses with cyclists riding illegally on the sidewalk about as often as I experience near-misses from people running red lights when I'm in a car.
I guess there are not enough bike lanes?
The Economics of Bike Lanes
171–180 of 203 posts
Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think Forrester has some stats that show riding in a bike lane is more dangerous than sharing the road with traffic. But one could argue that bike lanes attract cyclists who haven't learned or thought about safe cycling, whereas the unmarked street scares that demographic away. The problem city planners are having is that they want to be "bike friendly" in every way except educating road users. Some stripes on the…
> Some stripes on the road don't make cycling safe. > Cyclists that think carefully and act predictably do I don't have any data to back this up, but it's my feeling that there are more drivers on the road that just don't pay enough attention to the road than there are reckless cyclists. At the very least, when there are cycle lanes there is a 'barrier' where if a driver crosses it they are unquestionably in the wron…
Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nearly all of what you say is true. However, you neglect to mention that it all applies to pedestrians as well, and drivers of course have their own version of each. I have observed (and swerved to avoid) many pedestrians who don't use crosswalks, ignore crossing signals (it is not OK to start walking when the "don't walk" is flashing") , and walk right in front of bicycles in a bike lane with a green light, all beca…
Does two wrongs make a right? Does pedestrian not using crosswalks give license for a biker to blow pass a red light?
And before you start, it's not even remotely comparable for a car. In a car, you're essentially in a sensory-deprivation chamber, and you're several feet farther from the intersection — the difference this makes to your situational awareness is impossible to overstate.
On a bike, I have full range of vision, full hearing faculties (ride a bike for awhile, you'll be amazed at how much situational awareness you have from your ears alone), and the danger I pose to others in case of a misdjudgment is miniscule: either I'm the one who gets plastered by a car, or in the case of an unexpected pedestrian, my stopping distance is perhaps three feet.
I've done this for years and haven't had so much as a close call. On the other hand, I'm _far_ more concerned about pedestrians who step out into the road without looking because they don't hear a car coming. On the Georgia State campus, this happens to me maybe once a week.
In short, the time and effort devoted to this topic is nothing short of insane given the miniscule numbers of people affected. The number of people killed by _safe and lawful_ drivers per passenger-mile, per passenger-trip, or any other weighted measure is absolutely staggering compared to even the most dangerous cyclists out there.
Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Life is too short to get your blood pressure up about this sort of stuff. Likewise next time you see a car cut in front of your bike, just let it roll and don't let the rage get to you.
Inconvenience vs peril. One thing is annoying while another is potentially deadly. Different reactions seem justified, don't you think?
Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reckless behavior endangering others are looked on dimly, regardless it's a biker or driver. No to the extreme exaggeration 'if you even step an inch over the line, I will run you over.' It's more like 'if you run a red light or stop sign, I might accidentally run you over.'
Bullshit. Simply by choosing to ride a bike, a cyclist makes the roads so much safer (comparatively) for everyone else, they could cycle backwards through the streets while blindfolded and it would _still_ likely be a net benefit to the safety of others on the road (nothing claimed about the cyclist him- or her-self). And this is before you consider the notion that the vast majority of drivers speed (speed limits are…
Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does two wrongs make a right? Does pedestrian not using crosswalks give license for a biker to blow pass a red light?
Most people here are arguing that it isn't even wrong. If nobody's coming, you have clear visibility and lines of sight, there's absolutely no rational argument for this behavior being a "dangerous" action on behalf of either cyclists or pedestrians. And before you start, it's not even remotely comparable for a car. In a car, you're essentially in a sensory-deprivation chamber, and you're several feet farther from th…
Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>(And that's why I don't like bike lanes, because they make doing the wrong thing feel like "the law". "There's that stripe, so I must make my left turn from the curb, that line on the road says so." Then they die and everyone whines about how dangerous cycling is.) ... or they don't turn from the curb, cut over to the left lane and drivers get pissed because "my tax dollars paid for that bike lane and you'rs still…
For those of you not from Chicago, Chicago has created an experimental bike lane on a downtown street. They put some reflective poles in the middle of the side of the road where cars park, then designated everything from those poles to the curb a bike lane. Cars now park to the left of bicycles and to the right of cars, creating an interesting setup. There is no risk of being "doored" now, but traffic coming out of s…
Milwaukee is pretty bike-friendly in general though. Well sort of, the people typically will respect you on the road but don't ask them to spend a dime on bike lanes, trails, or anything else not related to driving a car as fast as possible. My ride to work (8 mi. now) is primarily on an off mile street so traffic is light and I have almost no problems with cars.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_boulevard
[2] http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/124686578.html
Kinzie Bike Lane:
http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/cdot/provdrs/bike...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64168757@N02/sets/7215762730854...
Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes
#178I totally agree with the idea in the OP (not that we have much free parking left in Chicago). But I have to get something off my chest, although it's tangential to this post. (I know this will be sacrilege to the many HN bikers but here it goes): First a disclaimer: I, at 40+, cannot ride a bike reliably (yeah, I know, it funny, there's a long backstory), in fact I learned how to ride about 10 years ago, not by apply…
I always tell people: if you knew you wouldn't get a ticket in a car for running a red light safely, you would do it. As soon as the police start ticketing for running red lights and stop signs on a bike, I'll stop. I ride in Philadelphia and I try to be somewhat considerate to drivers. I slow down for every stoplight and stop sign, but if nobody's coming, I'm going to go through it, because I'm not going to get in t…
They are even rarer as a cyclist (takes me longer to clear the intersection).
The number of times that I have seen cyclists run red light safely (both for themselves and others in that intersection at the time) is precisely zero.
I've seen several hundred instances of cyclists running through intersections at this point.
The only good thing here from my point of view is that once I got out of big cities both cars and cyclists got a heck of a lot more courteous and law-abiding, so the number of people I have to deal with who're just completely ignoring the rules of the road, blocking intersections, etc is much lower. Good incentive to not live in a city again...
Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
For those of you not from Chicago, Chicago has created an experimental bike lane on a downtown street. They put some reflective poles in the middle of the side of the road where cars park, then designated everything from those poles to the curb a bike lane. Cars now park to the left of bicycles and to the right of cars, creating an interesting setup. There is no risk of being "doored" now, but traffic coming out of s…
Agreed, Kinzie would probably be better served by a bike boulevard template [1]. Milwaukee is trying something else, it seems like there will be a driving lane, then a half-curb type thing with a raised bike lane on the right. [2] No parked cars. I'm not sure how it will work (completion 2012) but I'm curious to see, it will certainly be easier to get in/out of it mid block. Milwaukee is pretty bike-friendly in gener…
Also, getting hit by a car at 15mph is quite survivable.
Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have never ever ever heard someone say that it's ok for a car to just blow through a red light. Just now, equalarrow made the implication that it is ok for bikes to go through red lights at their personal discretion. Do you have an example of "someone using did " where it wouldn't be considered way more egregious if someone did it in a car than a bike? I think it's possible you have a flawed perception because ever…
Then you have your head in the sand. Read ww520 comment, he mentions drivers taking cyclists seriously. This is a typical bias, and the implication is clear. He is a driver, he already takes drivers seriously, because he is one. Whatever it means to 'take someone seriously', I am hoping he does not mean avoid running of the road.
I take all participants on the road seriously, drivers, bikers, and pedestrians. I pay special attention to bikers to slow down, to get around them, or to yield to them when making turn since they are in a slower vehicle. I myself bike from time to time.
What I don't agree is the prevalent bikers mentality of ok'ing blowing redlight and stop sign, and the hypocrisy coming from the bikers to justify doing it.
Traffic laws are there so that participants of the road can share it SAFELY.