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Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

theregister.com

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Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#181

Post by lazide »

Krasnol wrote: post #145
justapassenger wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or imagine this... they (athletes and CEOs) are ALL grossly overpaid. WOAH!! Pay is a function of scarcity and value they bring. > How out of touch with reality are you, if you think that's acceptable for any human to make that kind of money when majority of the world can hardly afford food. Livable conditions for all humans have nothing to do with how to compensate top of the of the top people in their profession.…

> Pay is a function of scarcity and value they bring. I seriously doubt those skills which are supposed to define scarcity at this point. There is too much management to require a seriously special person on that chair. I'm sure you could have someone from mid-management on that chair and it still wouldn't run worse. It would probably even run better. So what is the value there? It's almost like with a piece of art.…

If folks who had to pay them believed that, then they wouldn't pay them that (in my experience).

As to if you think the folks who pay them are clueless to do so, do you know any of them personally?

Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#182

Post by lazide »

mike00632 wrote: post #164
cato_the_elder wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> undocumented immigrants "Undocumented" is mostly just a euphemism for illegal. Amazon does a significant amount of shady things, selling servers to ICE isn't one of them. Open borders are neither feasible nor popular.

It's the other way around. "Illegal" is the inaccurate slur to refer to an undocumented person. Nobody can be illegal.

Their presence as an immigrant in the country definitely can be though!

Hence 'Illegal Immigrant'.

Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#183

Post by arinlen »

cbozeman wrote: post #172
Kerrick wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That $212 million was starkly contrasted by the next point in the article, that Warehouse workers typically make $15/hr. It would take about 7,000 years working that wage (full-time) to make the same $212,000,000. It's still a _huge_ gulf, whether the CEO's compensation is in one year or one decade.

I often hear this and let me just pose this question... Damn near everyone in America, at least, has access to YouTube or other streaming services. I learned how to program in R from The Teaching Company Plus' (now Wondrium)'s "Learning Statistics: Concepts and Applications in R". 24 lectures. 12 hours of content. Resources available for download. It was the springboard that allowed me to seek out deeper resources an…

> Damn near everyone in America, at least, has access to YouTube or other streaming services. I learned how to program in R (...)

Enough with this pseudo-moralistic perpetuation of abuse, specially the tone-deaf ones based on survivorship bias.

Just because someone is not able to win the lottery that does not mean they have no right to earn a living wage that allows them a honest living.

Aren't we supposed to live in a civilized society? Why are you unwittingly normalizing exploitation and the widespread abuse that bars the majority of families from having a decent life? If not for the parents who can't be self-taught engineers, why not for their children? Are those also expected to endure hardship?

Just pay people a fair wage. Is it that hard?

Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#184

Post by arinlen »

cbozeman wrote: post #173
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this theme a lot when this topic comes up, and I feel it misses the point. Does the CEO provide 700x the value (based on $21.2M / 2000 hrs = $10600 "hourly rate") of a warehouse worker earning $15/hr? They absolutely provide critical input and decisions at the helm of a large ship, but if you break down their input versus the input of everyone under them...is it actually such a huge disparity of mental and phys…

I would be willing to bet the CEOs of these ultra-large, ultra-powerful tech firms provide far more than 700x the value of their average worker.

> I would be willing to bet the CEOs of these ultra-large, ultra-powerful tech firms provide far more than 700x the value of their average worker.

This assertion is amusing given this ultra-powerful tech firm has been systematically wasting resources to ensure their employees are both worked to death and not paid even a living wage.

Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#185

Post by OminousWeapons »

RONROC wrote: post #178
OminousWeapons wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should definitely not be more than FIVE times what he makes. Because you're not 5x smarter, efficient, or important as FIVE (5) janitors. Period. Again, it doesn't matter if I'm smarter, more efficient, or "more important" than 5 janitors; what matters is how much money I can help the company make and how hard I am to replace. If I'm enabling the company to make 10X more money than the efforts of a janitor could yi…

Hahaha, of course you don't see that. You're talents are rarified and frozen in amber (you work in an opaque, cut throat, morally bankrupt industry that headhunts just for the sake of taking talent off the market). I 100% agree that's it's arbitrary, and my figure wasn't a source of categorical, universal truth, but guess what? The hardest questions in life resides squarely in a GREY area. I'd even argue that your in…

Ah yes, I am a dirty member of the bourgeoisie who needs to be shot in the square by the true patriots such as yourself!

Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#186

Post by floxy »

mike00632 wrote: post #164
cato_the_elder wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> undocumented immigrants "Undocumented" is mostly just a euphemism for illegal. Amazon does a significant amount of shady things, selling servers to ICE isn't one of them. Open borders are neither feasible nor popular.

It's the other way around. "Illegal" is the inaccurate slur to refer to an undocumented person. Nobody can be illegal.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1365

Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#187

Post by cbozeman »

arinlen wrote: post #183
cbozeman wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often hear this and let me just pose this question... Damn near everyone in America, at least, has access to YouTube or other streaming services. I learned how to program in R from The Teaching Company Plus' (now Wondrium)'s "Learning Statistics: Concepts and Applications in R". 24 lectures. 12 hours of content. Resources available for download. It was the springboard that allowed me to seek out deeper resources an…

> Damn near everyone in America, at least, has access to YouTube or other streaming services. I learned how to program in R (...) Enough with this pseudo-moralistic perpetuation of abuse, specially the tone-deaf ones based on survivorship bias. Just because someone is not able to win the lottery that does not mean they have no right to earn a living wage that allows them a honest living. Aren't we supposed to live in…

> Just pay people a fair wage. Is it that hard?

Yes. Because we have no idea how to define 'fair'. I hear 'fair wage' over and over but no one can ever explain to me what makes the wage 'fair' other than, "I have a job and I should be able to live on that single job!"

Okay... why? Where is it written that you should be able to live on a single job?

As soon as you can come up with an argument that's not emotive, and is instead quantitative, I'll listen.

Right now, all I hear from people parroting this is that, "It's not right!"

Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#188

Post by nemothekid »

mrep wrote: post #139
nemothekid wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or imagine this... they (athletes and CEOs) are ALL grossly overpaid. No, athletes are paid what they deserve. That wasn't always the case, they got it through collective bargaining and it took strikes to make it happen. The average warehouse worker does not have this option, and the entire government/media/corporate apparatus is designed to make collective bargaining as difficult as possible. The difference betwee…

> The difference between a warehouse worker and an NFL player warming the bench is that one has a union, with teeth, that has fought for his fair share. No, the difference is that NFL makes a ton of money per player and they only want the best so the supply is extremely limited whereas basically anyone can work in a warehouse so there supply is basically infinite. If warehouses paid NFL wages, nobody would spend like…

>No, the difference is that NFL makes a ton of money per player and they only want the best so the supply is extremely limited whereas basically anyone can work in a warehouse so there supply is basically infinite.

No, it's not. The NFL athlete market is even more ripe for collusion than other markets because there are only a handful of owners who can (and did) easily collude to keep salaries low. It took several player strikes to get the NFL to the eye popping numbers we see today, and it wasn't always that way. There is no way in hell Tom Brady get's to command a $50MM salary if the next guy on the bench is only making $80k/yr. Owners wont commit to a 500k/yr minimum for a guy who is injured out of the goodness of their hearts. You can't ignore that the jumps in player compensation happened in the NFL after lockouts and strikes. The "invisible hand of the market" isn't a force you can take for granted.

Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#189

Post by TheCoelacanth »

user3939382 wrote: post #49
joecot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is most certainly targeted towards AWS being used by ICE. And not just in a generic way of them hosting ICE servers, but with ICE using Amazon Rekognition to identify undocumented immigrants (and allegedly AWS had meetings with ICE to convince them to use the service). The human rights violations come up when you talk about kids being separated from their families and then straight up lost, and the various other…

ICE is the problem, all the heinous shit US defense and intelligence does, whom Amazon is also in bed with, a-ok

What's your point? Do they need to complain about every single problem that exists simultaneously to be allowed to complain about anything?

Re: Amazon investors nuke ethics overhaul and say yes to $212M CEO pay

#190

Post by gtvwill »

egberts1 wrote: post #157
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this theme a lot when this topic comes up, and I feel it misses the point. Does the CEO provide 700x the value (based on $21.2M / 2000 hrs = $10600 "hourly rate") of a warehouse worker earning $15/hr? They absolutely provide critical input and decisions at the helm of a large ship, but if you break down their input versus the input of everyone under them...is it actually such a huge disparity of mental and phys…

For a penny an hour by a CEO who performs 400x that of an average Amazon employee, that’s a bargain.

Your dreaming or delusional if you think a CEOs output is 400x someone else's. Dangerously delusional.
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