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Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#221

Post by a_square_peg »

Maybe slightly off-topic, but I think this is a part of a larger trend of a declining empire - its inability to solve problems that have already become non-issues in other societies. From big issues like healthcare to small stuff like getting rid of pennies, I'm amazed at how the US is beholden to special interest groups under the guise of democracy and freedom, as well as its exceptionalism.

One can see this in dysfunctional companies, from its inability to acknowledge the root of the problem (e.g. trying to solve product problems with re-branding), bloated bureaucracy and rent-seeking behavours (e.g. we'll just raise the price!).

I really do hope things get better because the outcome is very scary but I also don't have much hope.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#222

Post by ahallock »

xvector wrote: post #183
maxerickson wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can an 18 year old Serbian walk into a store and buy whatever guns they want? Can they buy a large amount of ammunition? You hand wave away ease of access, but it probably matters. It certainly matters at the margin.

The problem is so obviously guns. It boggles my mind that people can ask questions like "what is the solution" and "we need a nuanced discussion" when the US is the only country in the world where schoolchildren get gunned down every other week. It is plainly obvious to any US citizen that has spent a significant amount of time outside the US, that the problem is guns.

It's not, though. Something has changed. My father literally used to bring his rifle to school for the target shooting club (not sure the exact name). If you can blame guns, then you can also blame the internet because that's where a lot of these young men spend their time in insolation, amplifying their violent fantasies. You saw that with the Sandy Hook shooter. He put garbage bags over his windows and didn't come out of his room for weeks at a time.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#223

Post by Acrobatic_Road »

tomrod wrote: post #133
bifrost wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its because buying a gun is a civil right. Smoking is not. That said, the 21yo requirement may be unconstitutional as well.

I've noticed your eight comments in this thread to date are fairly declarative but aren't well founded or sourced, simply assertions and often appear to be incorrect as responding comments have shown. Clearly, you and I both support the second amendment. However, we should recognize when our support of certain associate claims aren't well founded. Bearing arms and being part of a well-regulated militia are American c…

>Purchasing those arms isn't a civil right.

A ban on the purchasing of arms would definitely infringe on people's individual right to keep and bear them. Yes, an individual right, which is how 18th-19th century courts and political commentators viewed the 2nd before the 20th century "militia only" narrative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United...

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#224

Post by colechristensen »

Thorentis wrote: post #202

I honestly think precedent and copy-cat syndrome are hugely to blame. "Shooting up a school" has just become synonymous with going on a shooting rampage. How do we go back from this? Even if we ban guns, how do we stop the determined from getting their hands on a gun so that they can shot up a school? It think it's incredibly tragic that we have gotten to the point where killing multiple primsry school aged children…

We have to start by giving less attention to these events.

We have to start by being kind to the people who need it most and are often the most difficult to be kind to.

You can’t just create a way to think of people who do things as some sort of “other”, we are all human and capable of similar things given the wrong circumstances.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#225

Post by innocentoldguy »

xvector wrote: post #183
maxerickson wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can an 18 year old Serbian walk into a store and buy whatever guns they want? Can they buy a large amount of ammunition? You hand wave away ease of access, but it probably matters. It certainly matters at the margin.

The problem is so obviously guns. It boggles my mind that people can ask questions like "what is the solution" and "we need a nuanced discussion" when the US is the only country in the world where schoolchildren get gunned down every other week. It is plainly obvious to any US citizen that has spent a significant amount of time outside the US, that the problem is guns.

I've lived all over Europe and Asia in countries where guns are illegal and there's plenty of violent crime in those countries. So, what's the problem when someone kills 19 and injures 25 using a backpack full of knives (Japan), drives a truck into a crowd of people celebrating New Year's (Japan), or drives through a parade of old ladies (US)? Do we need knife control? Do we need car control?

At what point are we going to start blaming the criminals and not the implement they chose to use to commit their crimes?

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#226

Post by gruez »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #147
bifrost wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are suggesting is illegal. Its illegal to license a right. We shouldn't penalize the hundreds of millions of legal gun owners in the US because we're unable to catch psychopaths before they kill people.

Why should it be a right that we are bound to as modern citizens? I didn't sign off on the 2nd amendment, it was signed off on 250 years ago by a small group of pre-modern colonial elites. It originally was considered useful because colonists and local militias needed to be able to defend themselves from the British, and to not lose their means to hunt or protect themselves before police. These days, we have autonomy…

> Why should it be a right that we are bound to as modern citizens? I didn't sign off on the 2nd amendment, it was signed off on 250 years ago by a small group of pre-modern colonial elites. It originally was considered useful because colonists and local militias needed to be able to defend themselves from the British, and to not lose their means to hunt or protect themselves before police.

Did you sign up for the 1st amendment? Maybe next time we're facing a crisis of "facts" (ie. during covid), we should be able to repeal free speech by simple majority? After all, with electronic communications and deep fakes, fake news is much more dangerous now than to the colonists 250 years ago.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#228

Post by monkeybutton »

mulmen wrote: post #206
jonp888 wrote: post #40

As a foreigner, I do not see it as productive to seek any explanation or expect any reaction when yet another news story like this comes along. It's clear that this is the way Americans wish to live, and it is their perogative to do so.

As an American I hope when your country suffers a tragedy people don't go out of their way to tell you it doesn't matter to them.

As a non-American this statement is hilarious.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#229

Post by maxerickson »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #220
freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

I see many comments already default to "guns are the problem". I was hoping for a more nuanced discussion. As a non US resident you can't help but think that is a massive part of the problem. Many other countries have problems with bullying, mental health, radicalisation. We've also had mass shootings. But our tolerance is so much lower for that kind of BS. One shooting and it's over. The populace will support furthe…

It's probably not really the lobbying, it's the way our government is structured (governments even). Because of the way the US population is distributed, the Senate ends up responding to viewpoints that are in the overall minority.

And then lots of states have similar structures.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#230

Post by JKCalhoun »

xvector wrote: post #191
artificialLimbs wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well no one has said it yet and I don’t have a precious study to trot out, but: My >80 year old friend has suggested to me that this kind of problem didn’t exist before we started handing out pharmaceutical drugs of the variety that ‘handle’ mental illness. Sidebar semi-related story time: my wife got her Masters in childhood education and went directly to work for a public high school after. She was a.. I forget, co…

Mental illness, mental healthcare and pharmaceutical treatments are a thing in Europe too. The US is not a special outlier when it comes to bullying and mental health. But you don't see children being gunned down every other week in Europe. The problem is guns.

I see the comments in this thread being downvoted that point out that Europe (for example) have the same societal issues as the U.S. but don't have the same gun availability.
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