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Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#161

Post by maxerickson »

freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

Can an 18 year old Serbian walk into a store and buy whatever guns they want? Can they buy a large amount of ammunition?

You hand wave away ease of access, but it probably matters. It certainly matters at the margin.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#162

Post by throwawaylinux »

greatwhitenorth wrote: post #76

India has 4 times the population of US and I've never heard or read about a school shooting or a mass shooting. There is way worse poverty, mental illness, lawlessness, corruption at every level in India. The only difference is easy access to guns. Not sure why it's so difficult for gun worshippers in US to understand this.

Why would you claim India is almost identical to the USA except for this one variable (which seems like a laughable simplification anyway), and not, say, El Salvador or Serbia? Seems like a classic case of searching for data that confirms your opinion.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#163

Post by artificialLimbs »

diob wrote: post #156
freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

I think you're being disingenuous with what you surfaced from your Wikipedia link. We are literally the only country on there that has more guns than people (the 2nd highest is literally half our amount per capita!). Now look at the ratio of unregistered to registered in the US. We clearly have a problem compared to other countries. 392 times more unregistered guns than registered, good god.

Sorry, correlation != causation. Has never been a problem until recent times so maybe you can find another scapegoat if you need some pablum.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#164

Post by Supermancho »

tomrod wrote: post #131
bifrost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not wrong.

Yes he is. Cops sometimes have to shoot people. Gun owners occasionally shoot in self defense. They are not mentally ill.

> Gun owners occasionally shoot in self defense. They are not mentally ill.

Then that's not a gun crime and definitely outside the realm of the 1 sentence context. This is why these discussions seem to go back and forth. Wild swings of intentional ignorance, as to what the discussion is about, after having already made up their minds.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#165

Post by bjt2n3904 »

krnlpnc wrote: post #79

What if guns were treated similarly to cars? Mandatory training, License w/ renewals, registration w/ renewals, insurance mandatory, yearly inspection mandatory, etc. Personally I feel people should be able to defend themselves while at the same time deterred from stockpiling and accessing mass casualty capable arms.

What if cars were legislated like guns?

Mufflers would be illegal. If you are driving between states, you need to check to see if your driver's license is accepted by each state you go through -- and some counties. Adjustable car seats are illegal. Automatic transmissions are illegal. Building your own car would be illegal. If your truck is too short, it's a felony. Unless you call your truck a car, and never put anything in the bed. If you have a criminal record for drug use, you cannot drive a car, or even ride a bus. Some states will only let you put 5 gallons of gas in your tank, claiming that large gas tanks are a risk for ramming attacks. California will only let you purchase cars they say are safe--and haven't updated the roster for years. Politicians keep insisting that your tires should be laser etched with microscopic serial numbers so you can track down criminals by the tire marks left behind, and that your car should have a kill switch controlled by the government. Movies like Fast and the Furious get blamed for causing drunk driving. If you buy a Tesla, people constantly demand that you explain why you NEED to own it, and that everyone should be perfectly fine with a Vespa scooter. Whenever a drunk driver hits someone, society blames you personally, and says that you just want your dumb hobbies and don't care about children.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#167

Post by maxerickson »

soneil wrote: post #128
freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

I consider myself the middle. My mother is right-leaning American and my father is left-leaning European. Long story, to say the least. I maintain the US has a bruce willis problem. An ethos that a good guy with a gun is the solution to all problems. It may even be, the issue is when someone thinks they're the good guy with a gun, and they're not. They think they're bruce willis, and they're not. They think they're r…

Is the celebration of impunity embodied in American action movies not popular around the world?

Lots of movies made outside the US seem to have similar themes (But I guess I haven't watched that many; a recent one is The Raid).

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#168

Post by kube-system »

smt88 wrote: post #13
bifrost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not wrong.

He is absolutely, 100% wrong. It may be true for mass shootings, but not for overall gun violence. A lot of gun deaths are suicides. Those are mental illness. But there are categories that are just idiots with guns, like people who get into fights outside bars. There are also a surprising number of men who murder a woman who is pregnant with their child because they don't want the baby to be born. Sometimes murder is…

I think there’s a reasonable non-chronic meaning to the word “health” as well.

Like in the way someone might “take a mental health day” off of work. Someone doesn’t have to be diagnosable to be in an unhealthy mindset.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#169

Post by trevcanhuman »

onesafari wrote: post #59
freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

The root cause may be bullying and ostracization combined with the media contagion effect. This is a repeating pattern. Bullying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/25/uvalde-texa... The gunman in Tuesday’s elementary school massacre was a lonely 18-year-old who was bullied over a childhood speech impediment, suffered from a fraught home life and lashed out violently against peers and strangers recently an…

I think you have a great point, yet something that I haven't seen anyone talk about is scale. The scale of the schools in the United States is enormous. I hear about 2000,3000, 5000-student schools.

Some family's studied in the U.S., and even their middle school and elementary is 2000 students ! That's enormous, gigantic!

Here in Mexico schools are small-scale. Education here is much, much smaller scale. I think that the bigger the student population is at the campus, the bigger the chances are of failing at important problems such as bullying, since extreme standardization of these processes creates more problems than genuine solutions. Plus.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#170

Post by karmelapple »

librish wrote: post #89

It's time we start legislating based on empirical evidence instead of lofty ideals. Yes, if everyone was responsible perhaps it would be OK for all of us to own firearms. But so many people are utterly irresponsible, and guns make that irresponsibility lethal. People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don't and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child. People shouldn't point a gun…

Here’s a roadmap for policymakers that I think is steeped in evidence: https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/claireboine/files/policy.b...

There are 3 recommended policy changes in there.

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