California parents could soon sue for social media addiction • Hacker News Board

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#101

Post by themacguffinman » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:24 AM UTC

esrauch wrote: post #67

voidfunc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we just put everyone in a box after they are born and feed them through a straw like a hamster so they can't possibly ever harm themselves? People need to take responsibility for themselves.

Do you think cigarettes and alcohol should be legal for sale to children? What about advertising specifically targeted at getting kids interested and hooked on cigarettes? What about child labor? Why not let just parents decide what's right for their kids? There's some behaviors of corporations interacting with children that are correctly regulated in the interest of the broader society we live in. It is completely v…

Okay but then you'd actually have to prove that advertising and social media rises to the same level of consistent harm with reliably addictive mechanisms as cigarettes and alcohol. You'd have to do, like, medical science and stuff, not just vague surveys that some teens get slightly lower self esteem peppered with a few irrelevant "I quit Facebook and I feel better now" anecdotes.

A lot of people were so sure and so vocal that violent video games cause violent behavior, a "just so" theory that no one bothered to prove. History loves to rhyme.

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#102

Post by falcolas » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:26 AM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #52

eredengrin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, beyond the technical considerations, there's also social implications. To what extent can you remove kids from social media before they start feeling excessively socially constricted compared to their peers? For example, taking away phones altogether is likely to lead to a much harder social life. If the tech companies encourage more responsible use of social media, they can make it easier for both th…

Why not give children locked down phones instead of always opting for regulation instead? The first option is much faster and immediately effective.

If a child can access porn on a locked down phone (they can, and do), they'll find a way to access anything they want.

At some point you have to put some responsibility on the companies who are creating addictive experiences targeted at children.

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#103

Post by throw_m239339 » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:27 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #86

czhu12 wrote: post #72

Creating regulations like this may end up acting as a regulatory moat for existing social network companies. This probably makes the overall social media pie smaller overall but guarantees incumbents slice of the pie. We've seen this happen in other highly regulated areas such as healthcare, telecommunications, etc. I suspect the way things are trending, in 10 years, very few entrepreneurs would be willing to start a…

On the other hand, we want to prevent new companies forming on the premise they can make money from gamifying their product so much it becomes addictive. Now, addictiveness has to have some definition to be useful. It can't be some odd random user who suffers from some kind of condition that prevents them from self-regulating their particular addiction whereas for example other people don't get addicted. There have t…

> we want to prevent new companies forming on the premise they can make money from gamifying their product so much it becomes addictive

Not if the existing companies are still allowed to do exactly that, or it's just called regulatory capture and serves the interests of Reddit/Twitter/Facebook/TikTok and co. Either it's illegal for everybody to exploit mental illness for profit or it's legal for everybody.

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#104

Post by MomoXenosaga » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:27 AM UTC

voidfunc wrote: post #36

falcolas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal situation, it's two parents against thousands of software engineers, marketers, corporate psychologists, and their children's many peers. Many adults can't keep themselves from the addiction. How do we expect parents to keep their kids from it? Or, to put it another way, I'm sure the median parent would have much less luck keeping their kids away from social media than they do with porn.

Why don't we just put everyone in a box after they are born and feed them through a straw like a hamster so they can't possibly ever harm themselves? People need to take responsibility for themselves.

And then when they are 18 they are let loose in the world and they go crazy.

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#105

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:28 AM UTC

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #97

How the F do Americans square this with the first amendment that they can't shut up about?

[deleted]

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#106

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:28 AM UTC

parenting_ wrote: post #30

dahdum wrote: post #5

If only there was a way parents could exert some sort of influence or authority over these children to prevent what they believe is harmful. We could call it “parenting”.

A controversial take. We should consider individuals aren't able to parent their kids effectively. Would you rather trust two exhausted individuals or a huge army of trained professionals at payroll by government to parent the kids? There is very less transfer of knowledge and the worldview of individual parents is often limited. If there is an organization parenting thousands of kids, they can run A/B tests, see res…

In the US we have a system where thousands of doctors, nurses and researchers are responsible for the healthcare of soldiers, former and present.

Healthcare is a known thing. We know how to provide good healthcare. This inherently does not require innovation.

The VA is one of the most fundamentally broken and flawed systems known to man. Months and months before you can get basic care. Psychiatric care is so poor that soldiers have stupidly high rates of suicide. Basic things go misdiagnosed. There are reams of paperwork to fill out.

Do you really think we should trust kids to such a system?

Cuz we already do. Right now there are thousands of kids managed by the US government and they barely have blankets or beds. The government can barely feed them, and generally fails at showering them and clothing them.

Read into any case where a bulk group has mass raised children. Not once has it worked out. Not once.

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#107

Post by mc32 » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:30 AM UTC

throw_m239339 wrote: post #103

mc32 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, we want to prevent new companies forming on the premise they can make money from gamifying their product so much it becomes addictive. Now, addictiveness has to have some definition to be useful. It can't be some odd random user who suffers from some kind of condition that prevents them from self-regulating their particular addiction whereas for example other people don't get addicted. There have t…

> we want to prevent new companies forming on the premise they can make money from gamifying their product so much it becomes addictive Not if the existing companies are still allowed to do exactly that, or it's just called regulatory capture and serves the interests of Reddit/Twitter/Facebook/TikTok and co. Either it's illegal for everybody to exploit mental illness for profit or it's legal for everybody.

No disagreement there.

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#108

Post by RC_ITR » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:30 AM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #32

What I've come to realize in recent years is there are an awful lot of people who have children who don't want to be parents. It's like they don't even like children but it seems like they're running down a Life checklist of things you should do. Or maybe they like the idea of having adult children? I really don't know. But I know so many people who don't actually like spending time with their children. I get some pe…

There are certain scenarios where our biological instincts and our desire for society collide and this is one.

Having kids is literally hardwired into most people’s brains, even if it’s an illogical choice for them.

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#109

Post by throw_m239339 » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:33 AM UTC

czhu12 wrote: post #72

Creating regulations like this may end up acting as a regulatory moat for existing social network companies. This probably makes the overall social media pie smaller overall but guarantees incumbents slice of the pie. We've seen this happen in other highly regulated areas such as healthcare, telecommunications, etc. I suspect the way things are trending, in 10 years, very few entrepreneurs would be willing to start a…

> I suspect the way things are trending, in 10 years, very few entrepreneurs would be willing to start a new social media company.

I suspect that future social media will be even worse that Twitter/TikTok/Reddit and co, just like TikTok is even more unhinged than Facebook or Twitter. Social media is entertainment, entertainment is always pushing the limits of what is morally acceptable to broadcast because it's profitable and brings in more eyeballs. It's exactly the same reason as to why reality TV perverted television even more by turning TV into some voyeuristic dystopia. That's what social media is.

Re: California parents could soon sue for social media addiction

#110

Post by MomoXenosaga » Thu, May 26, 2022, 1:33 AM UTC

parenting_ wrote: post #30

dahdum wrote: post #5

If only there was a way parents could exert some sort of influence or authority over these children to prevent what they believe is harmful. We could call it “parenting”.

A controversial take. We should consider individuals aren't able to parent their kids effectively. Would you rather trust two exhausted individuals or a huge army of trained professionals at payroll by government to parent the kids? There is very less transfer of knowledge and the worldview of individual parents is often limited. If there is an organization parenting thousands of kids, they can run A/B tests, see res…

If you had any experience with child protection services you would know that it is just a 9 to 5 job for those people and they do not love the kids (I don't mean that harshly doctors don't cry every time a patient dies on them).

Parental love is an impossible thing to simulate.