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Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#61

Post by rajin444 »

US Population growth of around 100-120 mil from the 60s/70s onward due to primarily immigration has never been done before. No ruler who cares about their people would attempt such a thing - cultures must be joined slowly and carefully.

American culture started dying right around then. Shootings like this are a side effect. Maybe things will get better, but current trends appear to signal the opposite. I’m genuinely curious if a new “global” culture will come out of all this turmoil or the US will end up like Brazil.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#62

Post by mberning »

KerrAvon wrote: post #38
freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

> It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity It really is not. There are too many guns available, too easily obtained, to too many citizens who have not been properly indoctrinated with a sense of civic responsibility, let alone trained in the proper ways to handle a gun. The answer isn't to throw more guns at the problem or to blame inadequate mental health facilities. It is to reduce gun availability. A…

That’s like saying food availability is a core component in the obesity epidemic. I suppose there is some truth in that, but the solution it suggests is wholly inadequate.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#63

Post by dragontamer »

onesafari wrote: post #59
freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

The root cause may be bullying and ostracization combined with the media contagion effect. This is a repeating pattern. Bullying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/25/uvalde-texa... The gunman in Tuesday’s elementary school massacre was a lonely 18-year-old who was bullied over a childhood speech impediment, suffered from a fraught home life and lashed out violently against peers and strangers recently an…

Are there no Bullies in say, the United Kingdom?

The big difference between UK and USA is the number of guns we have in our country compared to theirs. We probably can't stop bullying, but we actually can do something about the number of guns in our country.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#64

Post by rajin444 »

KerrAvon wrote: post #38
freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

> It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity It really is not. There are too many guns available, too easily obtained, to too many citizens who have not been properly indoctrinated with a sense of civic responsibility, let alone trained in the proper ways to handle a gun. The answer isn't to throw more guns at the problem or to blame inadequate mental health facilities. It is to reduce gun availability. A…

> too easily obtained, to too many citizens who have not been properly indoctrinated with a sense of civic responsibility

Banning guns is not the answer. Instilling that civic responsibility is - the benefits are astronomical.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#65

Post by dane-pgp »

heavyset_go wrote: post #36
whatever1 wrote: post #6

We need gory pictures from the executed kids everywhere. Until we understand the magnitude of the horror. I look at my FB and see proud gun owners cracking jokes and I really cannot comprehend how it is possible.

Felt the same way about COVID and war. If cameras were allowed into ICUs, and into war-torn areas, and not just the carefully choreographed media tours the military sometimes allows these days, things would change.

Do we want policy decisions to be influenced by which side can produce the most emotive imagery, though?

This is just "think of the children" with more steps. For example, if you're going to highlight the scenes from inside ICUs, why not also show images of children crying when receiving their COVID jabs?

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#67

Post by giraffe_lady »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #45
giraffe_lady wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of "intellectually stimulating" conversation about this and has been for decades. For the most part we value civility and compromise so highly that we'll accept the routine murder of children rather than pay the price of pissing a bunch of people off with gun reform. The conversations aren't the problem, the guns are. There's not really a path to compromise here, I don't think. Either we stop having gu…

What gun reform do you think needs to be in place? I'm curious?

No, I'm not willing to get derailed and bogged down into specifics that can be argued or refuted right now. Sorry if that's not your intention but it's hard to judge and it's a very common one with this subject.

I am not an expert on public policy, violence, jurisprudence, or legislature. It's not my place or responsibility to design or implement the solution to this problem.

I'm a citizen who is not willing to accept that routine events like this are an acceptable cost to pay for any freedom. There are probably a wide range of policies that could prevent this, it's up to experts to figure it out. My role is to demand that they do.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#68

Post by condercet »

It is not fair to place the blame for this epidemic of violence squarely on those suffering from mental health issues.

Mental health issues are distributed globally, but the gun violence problem is not.

People who suffer from mental health issues are tremendously more likely to be victims of violence, rather than the perpetrators. These individuals already suffer from tremendous discrimination and hardships in their lives.

Those who would place the blame in this direction while deflecting from the ease of access to firearms are acting disingenuously.

We continue to do nothing, and I wish I could say that nothing continues to happen - but Americans continue to die from this senseless violence with shocking regularity.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#69

Post by bifrost »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #35
freediver wrote: post #2

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

There's plenty of "intellectually stimulating" conversation about this and has been for decades. For the most part we value civility and compromise so highly that we'll accept the routine murder of children rather than pay the price of pissing a bunch of people off with gun reform. The conversations aren't the problem, the guns are. There's not really a path to compromise here, I don't think. Either we stop having gu…

Or we could take the spate of teenage psychopathic murderers and develop a plan to combat it sanely.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#70

Post by petschge »

bifrost wrote: post #50
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take social media activity into account during background checks. Increase the age to purchase to 21. 1 month waiting period. I'm a gun owner btw. I also wonder what interesting things would happen if in order to own a gun you must drill with a militia.

The age restriction is illegal, just ruled on by CA Supreme Court. Social Media activity check is a violation of the 4th amendment. You can't tax or gate a right by requiring someone to join a militia.

Just a thought: If the constitution prevents things that would work to prevent this problem form reoccuring, maybe the constitution needs fixing. After all it is rather old and contains a whole bunch of other bugs as well.
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