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Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

newyorker.com

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Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#251
post #68

Don’t let all the shenanigans at the top stop you from doing good. It’s clear that the American system of tax preference for philanthropy is easy to abuse, but while it’s there you might as well use it to help people if you can afford to. If your company matches donations, take them up on that. That means for $1 pre-tax (~$0.60 out of your pocket) you can give $2.00 to an organization that could use the money. That’s…

Getting a 3.5x multiplier for a charity that is mostly waste puts you more or less back at 1x.

Which is not to say you shouldn't help people. It is to say that the best way to help may not be registered and legislated charity. Mutual aid is a powerful thing - you can enable communities around you to be self-determining, rather than funding a bunch of salaried assholes to decide what they need.

Go find a mutual aid organization near you. Set up a big chunky recurring contribution. And if you're feeling intrepid, get to know some of the people and learn how you can help out on the ground.

Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#252
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what organisations, pray tell, actually need the money and would be visible to a normal human being in a country that isn't shattered by war? Most of the large charities have disgustingly paid CEO's and I can't be the only one that gets a sour taste in their mouth when I give an amount of money to them and realise this CEO receives 100k-1m in compensation while actual human beings starve in the streets or freeze…

You should rethink this stance. Do you want competent people running the organization or the cheapest possible? A charity that just passes money straight through by sending envelopes full of cash to a war torn country is much worse than one that spends a ton of money on analyzing first what the most effective way to help is.

https://www.givedirectly.org/ is I think a fairly effective charity, admittedly I assume they mostly send money to people in non-war torn countries, but I think the point still holds, and just doing the moral equivalent of sending evelopes full of cash is a decent baseline for charities.

Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is rather confusing. You say they aren't comparable, then point out a plethora of comparisons. You then finish by demonstrating some of the reasons governments are inefficient. All of this after leading with seeming disagreement. I'm a little lost.

I can compare apples and oranges. "Well, oranges tend to be rounder, and more orange, and tarter, and...". Doesn't change the fact that it is THE cliche for bad comparisons that you shouldn't attempt. Maybe I should clarify, especially if English isn't your first language, saying something "isn't comparable" doesn't mean you literally can't compare them, but that doing so is unhelpful and misleading.

The Apples and Oranges idiom refers to comparing things on axis that don't make sense.

Comparing government's and private charities' efficiency at delivering help is a perfectly rational comparison to make when deciding which things should or should not be delivered by the government. The government's efficiency is always a concern when talking about it taking on new responsibilities.

If government efficiency was moot, why not have them handle delivery/allocation of all basic goods? We know that's a bad idea because the experiment has been run, and private industry is better as producing and distributing food because.... efficiency.

Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#254
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a charity to which I contribute does a single thing I don't like, I can decide to never give them another penny. If the government doesn't do a single thing I like, more than half my income still goes to taxes each year to fund the government (income, property, sales, etc.), and there is nothing I can realistically do to change that. Which one is accountable?

When we're talking about something that's supposed to support a whole community, being "accountable" to the whims of one individual is not a meaningful level of accountability. Changing government policy requires broad consensus from many people, which is exactly as it should be.

This assumes that charities are "supposed" to support the whole community, which I don't think is true.

It also assumes that government policies support the whole community, which I don't think is true either. It is pretty common for policies to harm one group in the community and benefit a different group in the community.

Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can compare apples and oranges. "Well, oranges tend to be rounder, and more orange, and tarter, and...". Doesn't change the fact that it is THE cliche for bad comparisons that you shouldn't attempt. Maybe I should clarify, especially if English isn't your first language, saying something "isn't comparable" doesn't mean you literally can't compare them, but that doing so is unhelpful and misleading.

The Apples and Oranges idiom refers to comparing things on axis that don't make sense. Comparing government's and private charities' efficiency at delivering help is a perfectly rational comparison to make when deciding which things should or should not be delivered by the government. The government's efficiency is always a concern when talking about it taking on new responsibilities. If government efficiency was moo…

>> The Apples and Oranges idiom refers to comparing things on axis that don't make sense.

Feels like an arbitrary distinction to what I said. "Efficiency" is an axis that doesn't make sense when the scale and scope are massively different, for all the reasons mentioned above.

>> We know that's a bad idea because the experiment has been run

So many issues with this. First, your claim is "Efficiency is about benefit per dollar, and governments are really really bad a(t) that"; you make a claim about all governments. Cherry picking data points is not helping that claim; you have to show that government is never, and can never, be more efficient than private industry. I'm pointing out why even trying to make the comparison at national scale is difficult. Second, where has this example occurred? Again, I think your choice of data points is telling.

Food is actually a super interesting example where, again, the scale of the operation doesn't really make for direct comparison. Grocery stores are obviously the way consumers get access to food, but their stock happens via multiple wholesale distributors, who themselves are middle men between multiple suppliers. That is, while Ralphs/Kroger/King Soupers/etc may be as near a nationwide grocery store in the US as I'm aware of, they're stocked by Sysco, US Foods, etc (who are carrying multiple, sometimes even competing, brands), as well as sometimes specific distributors for a large enough company (Coke may have their own, for instance), and who transport product between warehouses using separate longhaul trucking companies, etc etc. There is a LOT of inefficiency involved in that, a lot of middle men collecting along the way, and as we saw during the pandemic, a lot of places the supply chain can break down. And you're comparing it to...what? Russia during peak communism? The closest the US has had is when the government got involved during WWII with rationing, and that actually worked really well, given the shortages we had.

Let's try going the other way, and scaling government down. I too will cherry pick some data - municipal broadband. Oh, wow, now we have something way more efficient than 'the free market', even without tax subsidies, in every market it exists in; so much so that the only way private industry can compete is via legislation to prevent municipal broadband from expanding.

Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#256
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we're talking about something that's supposed to support a whole community, being "accountable" to the whims of one individual is not a meaningful level of accountability. Changing government policy requires broad consensus from many people, which is exactly as it should be.

This assumes that charities are "supposed" to support the whole community, which I don't think is true. It also assumes that government policies support the whole community, which I don't think is true either. It is pretty common for policies to harm one group in the community and benefit a different group in the community.

All the more reason they need to be accountable to the community as a whole rather than a small handful of individuals.

Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#257
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that charities are "supposed" to support the whole community, which I don't think is true. It also assumes that government policies support the whole community, which I don't think is true either. It is pretty common for policies to harm one group in the community and benefit a different group in the community.

All the more reason they need to be accountable to the community as a whole rather than a small handful of individuals.

OK, we're using words differently here.

I think accountable means that when I give someone money, they should use my money for what I want, and you think accountable means that when I give someone money, they should use my money for what you want.

Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#258
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the more reason they need to be accountable to the community as a whole rather than a small handful of individuals.

OK, we're using words differently here. I think accountable means that when I give someone money, they should use my money for what I want, and you think accountable means that when I give someone money, they should use my money for what you want.

The whole point of "giving" is that it's no longer "my money". If it's still your money then it's not a donation.

Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still donate to several causes, and take a slightly different view on the expenses associated with fundraising. No one objects when for-profit businesses spend right up to the microeconomic theoretical optimal point where the marginal profit is zero. Yet we seem to object when charities do it. If I ran a charity and had an exclusive choice to either spend $X to raise $Y or spend ($X + $0.99M) to raise ($Y + $1.00M)…

>If I ran a charity and had an exclusive choice to either spend $X to raise $Y... The common criticism of this hangs on how elastic the supply of donor dollars are. If you spend $1M to divert funds from another charity to yours, then the system overall is worse off. This isn't a perfect model because donor dollars are not fixed, and all charities are not equivalent. reality lies somewhere in-between. That said, it is…

So part of the problem is the evaluation based upon low overhead …. What’s low overhead?

Everyone wants to donate to program work, but never to operations.

Even grants that carve out for operations aren’t always realistic.

Major gifts is one of the best ways to get unrestricted donor funds.

You can get a lot of information from the 990 filing of an organization.

In other comments, I agree that in many non profit organizations there are people who might not last in for profit.

Most of those people however are working in roles that are $30,000 , maybe $40,000 a year and there wouldn’t be someone in for profit who would take that role, for that amount of pay.

Overwork and burnout in the field is very real.

Unrelated to that staffing, I would again go back to operational expenses - rent, electricity, payroll etc. Depending on the nonprofit, this may be a huge percentage… but if you have an organization that has a $250,000 a year revenue, two staff to accomplish what their mission is…. What actually goes to program work might be very little.

Re: Much philanthropy is a routinized exchange between salaried bureaucrats

#260
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's particularly offensive to see the state and local tax deduction (money that actually goes to help one's fellows in the ways they see fit, without being beholden to the whims of the "donor") capped while 503c "donations" remain an unlimited deduction. The point of charitable deductions is to incentivize certain types of behavior (ie. charitable donations). On the other hand the SALT deduction is effectively the…

Not really. Flyover and southern states in particular mooch off of the productive locales. So not only do I need to pay more taxes for the US government to fund almost double my states pro rata aid to places like West Virginia and Mississippi, but I get to pay even higher taxes because my locality actually provides things like sound education. You know what, I think we should exercise the people’s desire for small go…

I’m not sure about the wealth of the country , but many people still don’t have running water or plumbing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/after-generations-of...

That’s a problem that seems to Mostly being addressed by nonprofits very slowly, and not the government …

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