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Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

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Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#61
post #52
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem that I have with Assange is that he doesn't practice what he preaches. Wikileaks is an organization that promotes government transparency. Assange, on the other hand, does not seem interested in just providing sources. Wikileaks, under what I assume was his direction, has turned into more of an editorial service, cherry picking information that they present to make certain parties look even worse than the…

> he doesn't practice what he preaches. He preaches government transparency. He's not a government. So how can he practice what he preaches? The same happens every day with journalists who fight for media transparency. Should they also be transparent with every aspect of their lives? Of course not. And you suggest he should be transparent with his sources. If you seriously believe that, you're clearly not in favour o…

"And you suggest he should be transparent with his sources. "

Reread the grandparent's comment. He's not saying Wikileaks should reveal it's sources but that it should release its source material. As opposed to editorialize. As opposed to becoming yet another dishonest filter of information.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#62
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose if "you win" means a jail sentence, then yes.

Is that what you have to say about King, Ghandi, Castro, and Mandela (amongst others)? I am not equating Assange with these folks, but I am using their jail sentences to suggest that while going to jail is not winning, it certainly doesn’t preclude winning later on. If anything, it may indicate that they are doing something to endanger the status quo, which is a necessary precondition of winning.

Why not equating him to these ? In my opinion, Assange is well worthy of a peace Nobel prize. He after all contributed a lot to the withdrawal of US forces from Iraq [1] and for the beginning of the Tunisian uprising [2]. Such a prize would also be very useful in that the money attached would greatly help fuel his efforts.

[1] http://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald/ http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/1023/Iraq-s-...

[2] http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/feb/02/wikileaks-exclus... http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-18/opinion/tunisia.wikileaks...

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#63
I'm impressed by the amount of comments here that point out some (perceived) hypocrisy in the actions of Wikileaks or Assange. This isn't the point.

I myself don't really know what to think of Wikileaks. I, however, do know that major banks and financial institutions find it perfectly okay for you to send money to all kinds of horrible organisations (say, the Ku Klux Klan, clubs that campaign for underage sex, Westboro Baptist Church, whatever you can come up with, and they probably have a bank account), but not to Wikileaks.

I can't imagine how Wikileaks can be considered a so much more evil organisation than Stormfront (http://www.stormfront.org/forum/announcement.php?a=63, all cards accepted) that the first needs to be blocked and the latter does not.

It can only be that at least this part of what Wikileaks is saying is true: Major banks and businesses, a scarily small number of organisations that control a large part of the world's financial transactions, want to control to who you give your money. This means that they want to control who gets money and what they do with it. This shit is NONE of their business, and the fact that they can do this without serious legal issues scares the shit out of me.

I like to believe that western governments are out to serve their citizens and protect their freedoms, but I cannot explain how that fits with what these banks are doing and how the governments just let it happen. This has absolutely nothing to do with the nature of Wikileaks as an organisation.

Really, this fact alone makes me want to send money in an envelope to Wikileaks, despite how ridiculous I thought Cablegate was.

Edit: If Wikileaks were a terrorist organisation (blowing up buildings and people and whatnot), I'd understand governments to force a ban. Not banks banning them on their own initiatives, but governments forcing it. If you genuinely feel that Wikileaks is as bad as Al Qaeda and Hamas and the alikes, then I'll understand if you disagree with me, although even then I hope you agree that it should've been a government decree, and not banks solo-piloting their sense of morality. In all other cases, really, I can't wrap my mind around it.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#64
post #37

Can someone explain why diplomatic cables should be free and open?

One argument is that governments, including, specifically, and particularly the US Federal Government, claim "state secrets" with little or no justification.

More tellingly, the US Supreme Court case that is the basis of the State Secrets Doctrine, United States v. Reynolds (1952), was based on deceptive and false claims on the part of the US. In that case, the government argued that it could not be compelled to introduce evidence into the court, or even disclose it in chambers to the justices of the United States Supreme Court, because it would irreparably disclose vital state secrets.

The crash documents were declassified in 2000 (and are available online). In Herring v. United States it was argued (unsuccessfully) that the documents in fact contained no such secrets. In district court an on appeals to the 3rd Circuit, "there was no fraud because the documents, read in their historical context, could have revealed secret information about the equipment being tested on the plane".

Not all are convinced of this. Nor that the case is sufficient justification for the doctrine of state secrets which has resulted from it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Reynolds http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/books/02liptak.html?scp=2&... http://www.barry-siegel.com/ClaimOfPrivilege.html

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#65
post #9
post #5

[deleted]

First they laugh at you.......................then you win.

I am pretty tired of this meme (incidentally, often misattributed to Gandhi, but appears to actually come from some guy called Nicholas Klein: * First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. And then they attack you and want to burn you. And then they build monuments to you. And that, is what is going to happen to the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America.*" [1])

Anyway, the classic duelling-quotes response:

"They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." -- Carl Sagan

[1] I find it amusing that not only did Mr Klein never did get the monument he wanted, he is now remembered purely for a comment he made which has been popularly reattributed to someone more famous.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#66
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you guys should be aware that giving away such information will simply generate a lot of attack vectors by those who want to take down wikileaks" Same as governments, then.

Aha.. but does Wikileaks affect your life if they hide that information from the you? Indeed, this is a strawman argument. Governments shouldn't hide information from people. That's the point.

Yes, yes it does. What if Wikileaks is taking especially large donations from powerful interests and chooses to censor its output as a result?

To say that transparency only applies to governments is to miss the whole point of transparency. If that is indeed Wikileaks' position as you say, then they've missed the point from the get-go.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#67
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that what you have to say about King, Ghandi, Castro, and Mandela (amongst others)? I am not equating Assange with these folks, but I am using their jail sentences to suggest that while going to jail is not winning, it certainly doesn’t preclude winning later on. If anything, it may indicate that they are doing something to endanger the status quo, which is a necessary precondition of winning.

"Castro, and Mandela" Mandela and Castro are murderers. Why are they even included on your list?

Wait, what? Mandela is not a murderer. It's kind of difficult to qualify Castro of being a murderer with so much certainty. You have got to be a troll.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#68
post #4

I'd be interested in Wikileaks providing a rundown on what they spend their money on. Every cent might be in the direct pursuit of free information but I worry that isn't the case.

If you donate through the Wau Holland Foundation [0], Wikileaks only get money if they provide a receipt for what they spent, and only for things that are in line with the foundations goals. See also this Interview [1] in Der Spiegel about donations.

[0] http://www.wau-holland-stiftung.de/english.html

[1] http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,734318,00.h...

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#69
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you guys should be aware that giving away such information will simply generate a lot of attack vectors by those who want to take down wikileaks" Same as governments, then.

Most insightful comment on the thread. This is exactly the same rationale for why the U.S. government doesn't want their secret diplomatic cables published.

In his "60 Minutes" interview, Assange acknowledged that governments and corporations have privacy rights as well. His position is that Wikileaks provides a way for whistle-blowers to publicize information that they feel is being ignored or suppressed by the authorities within the organization.

In other words, he describes Wikileaks as a last-resort channel for addressing institutional wrong-doing.

Re: Wikileaks Is Running Out Of Cash

#70
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aha.. but does Wikileaks affect your life if they hide that information from the you? Indeed, this is a strawman argument. Governments shouldn't hide information from people. That's the point.

Yes, yes it does. What if Wikileaks is taking especially large donations from powerful interests and chooses to censor its output as a result? To say that transparency only applies to governments is to miss the whole point of transparency. If that is indeed Wikileaks' position as you say, then they've missed the point from the get-go.

1) clearly this is not the case. stretching much?

2) that would only be effecting your life through inaction. defunding wikileaks would have the same effect.

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