Earlier quoted context omitted.
Made me check that one out, it's actually not an insane price, it competes with most new normal-person petrol cars... I mean I still wouldn't buy one new, and that's still a bit of a dodgy range, but maybe in ten years there will finally be an affordable 2nd hand market and some infra to make it reliable. In the mean time I will continue to run my petrol car into the ground like a good holistic environmentalist.
Would anyone trust a 2nd hand market for an EV when the battery is basically guaranteed to be dead long before more affordable ICE vehicles?
The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
261–270 of 410 posts
Re: The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
#262Modern cars seem to be moving towards all controls on a touch screen somewhere. I suppose this allows for more frequent updates, but in my experience it just leads to more bugs and more painful factory updates. Not to mention using a touchscreen to adjust the temperature while driving is incredibly dangerous compared to a dial you can feel for without taking your eyes off the road.
These days the digitization of everything means that modern cars with physical controls usually have up/down buttons to change the fan speed or temp. So like the Ford Flex I rented recently, you can't tell from touching the physical control whether the fan is at max speed, so the sequence is, look on the console for the right button (because there are were a half dozen or so identical buttons next to each other), hold it down, while listening to the fan speed until it sounds like its stopped getting faster. Then when you want to slow down, one has to look/feel for the button, hold it for a second or two until it seems to be roughly at the right speed, try not to over/unershoot because its laggy/etc.
Some of this is the result of climate controls designed to hold a given temp rather than setting the fan speed directly, where the assumption is the fan will run at max until it reaches it set point. But that is annoying in a whole other set of cases, including the one where the car isn't doing a good job of circulating the air causing a hotspot on the sunny side/etc. On my wife's car I find myself pushing the climate controls to max cool when I get in because its trying to run in "silent" mode, or waiting for the AC to come up to full pressure and I want it to cool down faster, then I have to look at the controls to reset it back to something reasonable when it finally starts to reach a comfortable temp.
Re: The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
I understand your critics against touchscreens and they are justified. Your car doesn’t have a good touchscreen interface from what you say and also from my experience when I drove the corollas from the car pool. However it’s not because many cars are bad that the technology is bad. A touchscreen from an 20 years old Archos MP3 player is extremely bad while an iPad Pro M1 is very good.
Some tools are just not good for the job. At least to me, I haven‘t seen a compelling reasons that touchscreens replacing analog car controls isn‘t a square peg going into a circle hole.
Re: The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
#264Re: The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe Mazda has a policy of no touchscreens in their vehicles.
They have touch screens, but it's minimal, pretty much only usable in the GPS view. They do have a rotary dial and push button that controls the display, so no touching it. Makes it a lot simpler when your UI designers are restricted to left/right movement and button push. Can't hide things all over the place and under deeply nested menus.
Re: The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
#266The most important lesson I learned in engineering school: define the problem then look for a solution. Most people have a solution in mind before they even look at the problem, and that solution is usually "build an app", or "slap a screen on it". With bureaucracy, it's "put the form on the internet". There are a few low tech devices I much prefer: - A kitchen timer vs. my phone. I don't need to unlock the phone and…
> My microwave has one knob for time, and one knob for intensity. I don't think a knob is the optimal interface for time. In microwaves you need to input both low values of ~10s and very high values of ~600s with good precision on both cases. Sure, a logarithmic knob will give you that, but I don't think it's what you would expect. For power it's good. It's even a much better interface for the power level than the us…
> I don't think a knob is the optimal interface for time. In microwaves you need to input both low values of ~10s and very high values of ~600s with good precision on both cases. Sure, a logarithmic knob will give you that, but I don't think it's what you would expect.
I definitely disagree. I had a stove once that had a perfect knob for setting time. The rate of increase/decrease was determined by the speed that you twisted it. Turn slowly for fine granularity, fast for large changes. I think it may have done something clever when you started fast and then slowed down (the natural thing to do), since I think the naive thing probably wouldn't work that well.
It felt *awesome*. It sounds silly, but it's been just over a decade and I still miss that control knob. I think about it every time I'm faced with the latest way of adjusting some quantity. It's definitely not just because it was a physical knob—plenty of physical knobs are irritating and only good for either small or large changes, or feel unpredictable, or don't have good tactile feedback (too smooth and too chunky are both bad).
Re: The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
#267One of the best low-tech interfaces is the honeywell round thermostat. Change the dial to point to the temperature you want and the internal indicator shows you the current temperature. All without requiring any transistors. Go shop for a thermostat, look at other options, and be amazed at how complex the layers of technology can make things.
So how to I set my away temperature? How do I set the return temperature? How do I set the sleep temperature? How do I set the wake temperature? How can I make it change based on my schedule, as I'm home most of the day on the weekends while I'm often out during the week? Seems like its not that great of a UI given the requirements I have.
Re: The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
Made me check that one out, it's actually not an insane price, it competes with most new normal-person petrol cars... I mean I still wouldn't buy one new, and that's still a bit of a dodgy range, but maybe in ten years there will finally be an affordable 2nd hand market and some infra to make it reliable. In the mean time I will continue to run my petrol car into the ground like a good holistic environmentalist.
Would anyone trust a 2nd hand market for an EV when the battery is basically guaranteed to be dead long before more affordable ICE vehicles?
Also worth acknowledging that the battery makes up a huge chunk of the car both physically and in terms of cost, and yet is a consumable, so I guess this lowers the resale value of EVs significantly? I wonder if it's even worth any of the remaining savings on the rest of the car after fitting a new battery. Maybe the next stage is scaling up lithium-ion recycling to drive down battery replacement and general battery cost to a point that "everyone else" can join in the EV game.
It would be a big step backwards for society if a new wealth gap is created when oil becomes too expensive to continue running cheap ICE cars and only moderately wealthy people can afford cars priced exclusively at "new" values without a 2nd hand market.
Re: The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which is useless when you have regional non-us accents, or have the windows open, or a crying baby.
Thank you, voice recognition systems suck when you have an accent or too much background noise.
My family tried an Echo Auto for voice control in one of our cars last year, but we ended up disconnecting it.
We drive through hills and mountains often, and it was common for voice commands to be ignored or to have seconds in latency because of spotty mobile network.
It worked OK in cities, as long as you were not on an underground parking lot, which was a common occurrence.
Re: The benefits of “low tech” user interfaces
#270"Touch Screens in Cars Solve a Problem We Didn't Have" Jay Caspian Kang, NYT May 23 2022
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/23/opinion/touch-screens-car...