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The Economics of Bike Lanes

economicsintelligence.com

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Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#41
post #24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which means it should go to referendum, rather than be subjected to executive decree.

Isn't there some sort of city council that decides this sort of thing, rather than a sole executive? Most public works projects don't go through a referendum from what I've seen, which would be impractically unwieldy.

Imagine if they tried to hold a referendum every time they wanted to put in some street parking...

Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#42
post #7

I totally agree with the idea in the OP (not that we have much free parking left in Chicago). But I have to get something off my chest, although it's tangential to this post. (I know this will be sacrilege to the many HN bikers but here it goes): First a disclaimer: I, at 40+, cannot ride a bike reliably (yeah, I know, it funny, there's a long backstory), in fact I learned how to ride about 10 years ago, not by apply…

Your arguments make sense in an environment where cycling isn't deeply inherent in a culture. I've cycled across NYC, Chicago and LA, and also Amsterdam, Copenhagen, and London, Paris and Barcelona.

Amsterdam and Copenhagen are amazing: as a cyclist you feel completely respected and the sheer numbers of you give a sense of legitimacy. Your own traffic lights and true cycle lanes lead to really safe transport, and you feel like a separate part of the system: not a car or a pedestrian. As such, you feel like you give the proper attention to car and pedestrian traffic and will stick to the proper safe rules.

Now the US cities? You feel like you are part of a dangerous new thing, the cars are out to get you and pedestrians don't even consider you might be there either. Pedestrians walk on the cycle lanes (because there are so few of them I guess it's not part of city consciousness) and yes, it is easy to have the feeling like you've got a certain right to run lights and weave through a couple of lanes (because more often than not there are potholes next to the curb).

My hope is that US cities just barrel forward with making more cycle lanes. The safer you make it for cyclists the less risks they have to take, and the more cycle traffic there are the more awareness in general, making it even safer.

I'd say London, Paris and Barcelona are somewhere in between, I mention them as examples of cities moving towards greater cycle density which I've seen transform over the last 10 years with my own eyes, for the better.

Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#43
post #7

I totally agree with the idea in the OP (not that we have much free parking left in Chicago). But I have to get something off my chest, although it's tangential to this post. (I know this will be sacrilege to the many HN bikers but here it goes): First a disclaimer: I, at 40+, cannot ride a bike reliably (yeah, I know, it funny, there's a long backstory), in fact I learned how to ride about 10 years ago, not by apply…

In Cambridge, MA the police have been enforcing traffic laws with bikers. Dunno what effect it has had, but enforcement, IMHO, as a place in getting bikers to obey the traffic laws. Drivers, on the whole, behave pretty badly too. As a driver, biker, and pedestrian in the Boston area I don't think I would say any of those groups act better than others. Would love separated bike lanes. Biking in the city is very satisf…

I live and bike in Cambridge. We have separated bike lanes in some places, but pedestrians generally don't respect them in my experience. I used to think pedestrians that walked in designated bike lanes just didn't know it was a bike lane. But the lane on Vassar Street has a bike icon every 30 ft or so and is a different color than the rest of the sidewalk. Yet pedestrians still seem to prefer it to "their" sidewalk just to the left or right. Same thing on the Southwest Corridor, which has designated bike and pedestrian lanes, which are not respected ignored by pedestrians at all when I've been on them. If they are going to ticket cyclists, it seems only fair to start ticketing pedestrians walking in the bike lane too.

Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#44
post #7

I totally agree with the idea in the OP (not that we have much free parking left in Chicago). But I have to get something off my chest, although it's tangential to this post. (I know this will be sacrilege to the many HN bikers but here it goes): First a disclaimer: I, at 40+, cannot ride a bike reliably (yeah, I know, it funny, there's a long backstory), in fact I learned how to ride about 10 years ago, not by apply…

I have not had a car for over 20 years. I've ridden my bike forever - to/from school since I was in grade school. Currently I live in San Francisco which has, some could say, an aggressive bike culture. Sometimes, I am one of those guys and I used to ride in the monthly Critical Mass rides. The fact of the matter is that we live in a pro-car country. California in general is a very pro-car state. The drive in diner w…

The bias in both these comments is so thick I could cut it with a knife. One can barely ride a bicycle; one wishes he didn't own a car.

Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#45
post #7

I totally agree with the idea in the OP (not that we have much free parking left in Chicago). But I have to get something off my chest, although it's tangential to this post. (I know this will be sacrilege to the many HN bikers but here it goes): First a disclaimer: I, at 40+, cannot ride a bike reliably (yeah, I know, it funny, there's a long backstory), in fact I learned how to ride about 10 years ago, not by apply…

I find the behavior of most bikers in traffic to be dangerous, obnoxious and rude. Bikers often say that they should be treated on par with cars (in matters of passing, etc.), but they themselves operate somewhere between vehicles and pedestrians, combining the worse characteristics of each. I have observed many bikers not to stop at stop signs or red lights, because, you know, they're for cars, jeopardizing pedestrians.

This sums up my own experience with cyclists. I've decided that they just don't belong on the roads. It's worse for everyone involved.

I have no problems with cyclists getting their own bike lanes, but until they do, I just wish they would stay off the roads entirely. I hate dealing with them both as a driver and a pedestrian.

Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#46
post #3

I think by "free," Cassidy means "libre," in that adding bike lanes decreases the number of available parking spaces. If that's the case, Storbeck improperly challenged the basis of Cassidy's cost-benefit scrutiny. The value (intrinsic and extrinsic) of bike lanes isn't in question; rather, Storbeck seems to take exception to the fact that these bike lanes are being constructed and rarely used. On the other hand, for…

Here's what I don't understand at all about Cassidy's argument.. is there a single free parking space in the city that's been displaced by a bike lane? Every bike lane I've seen and ridden on is right next to a bunch of parked cars.

Secondly, as far as increasing while they're currently under-utilized, I'd say that there's an argument for increasing to the point where there's a solid network over most of the city (which we're about at now). It's hard to say oh we don't need a bike lane on the UES because the west side lane isn't always full of bikers. Additionally, during rush hour those lanes certainly are utilized, I'm never the only one on a bike on a given block's length of bikelane during rush hour.

Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#47
post #7

I totally agree with the idea in the OP (not that we have much free parking left in Chicago). But I have to get something off my chest, although it's tangential to this post. (I know this will be sacrilege to the many HN bikers but here it goes): First a disclaimer: I, at 40+, cannot ride a bike reliably (yeah, I know, it funny, there's a long backstory), in fact I learned how to ride about 10 years ago, not by apply…

I find the behavior of most bikers in traffic to be dangerous, obnoxious and rude. Bikers often say that they should be treated on par with cars (in matters of passing, etc.), but they themselves operate somewhere between vehicles and pedestrians, combining the worse characteristics of each. I have observed many bikers not to stop at stop signs or red lights, because, you know, they're for cars, jeopardizing pedestri…

As a cyclist and a driver, I agree that there are far too many jerks who think it's fine to run red lights if it saves them a little pedaling...

but the ones that really get me are people in dark clothing after dark with no lights or helmet pedaling up the sidewalk on the left side of the street behind a row of parked cars and out across an intersection at 15mph... who, when faced with a near-accident, rant about how they had the "right of way".

Even if you're right, the right of way doesn't matter when you're dead, buddy.

Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#48
post #7

I totally agree with the idea in the OP (not that we have much free parking left in Chicago). But I have to get something off my chest, although it's tangential to this post. (I know this will be sacrilege to the many HN bikers but here it goes): First a disclaimer: I, at 40+, cannot ride a bike reliably (yeah, I know, it funny, there's a long backstory), in fact I learned how to ride about 10 years ago, not by apply…

It turns out, lots of people have this very same "little thing" to get off their chest. Every discussion of urban cycling goes off on this particular tangent. It's tiresome.

If you talk to people who cycle in cities, you'll find a lot of anger and rage at drivers also. These people may be eccentric, but their opinion seems based on facts as well. So consider the other side.

As a further catalyst, I challenge you, as a driver, to start looking at other drivers (including perhaps yourself) and noting the violations, especially speed limit violations.

For instance, it's a fact that on my way up to work, every driver (including me) is breaking the speed limit (65 in a 60). Almost without exception, every day. On a street near where I live, it's very common to see people driving 40 in a 35 (not including me).

Where's the outrage at these drivers?

Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#49
post #7

I totally agree with the idea in the OP (not that we have much free parking left in Chicago). But I have to get something off my chest, although it's tangential to this post. (I know this will be sacrilege to the many HN bikers but here it goes): First a disclaimer: I, at 40+, cannot ride a bike reliably (yeah, I know, it funny, there's a long backstory), in fact I learned how to ride about 10 years ago, not by apply…

In Cambridge, MA the police have been enforcing traffic laws with bikers. Dunno what effect it has had, but enforcement, IMHO, as a place in getting bikers to obey the traffic laws. Drivers, on the whole, behave pretty badly too. As a driver, biker, and pedestrian in the Boston area I don't think I would say any of those groups act better than others. Would love separated bike lanes. Biking in the city is very satisf…

  I don't think I would say any of those groups act better than others.
As a driver, cyclist & pedestrian in London I second this. Some cyclists are dangerous jerks. Some car drivers are dangerous jerks. Some pedestrians have their heads in their phones and cause a danger to everyone. Rather than ranting about it, I'd prefer each user group to just be more aware of the others & take a bit of care.

That and make all London taxi drivers cycle everywhere for a month to see how they like it ;-)

Re: The Economics of Bike Lanes

#50
post #16
post #7

I totally agree with the idea in the OP (not that we have much free parking left in Chicago). But I have to get something off my chest, although it's tangential to this post. (I know this will be sacrilege to the many HN bikers but here it goes): First a disclaimer: I, at 40+, cannot ride a bike reliably (yeah, I know, it funny, there's a long backstory), in fact I learned how to ride about 10 years ago, not by apply…

All those things would happen way less if there were dedicated bike lanes. And you should speak up when someone on a bike is creating a dangerous situation. I don't get why you would not.

Speak up in what way? Flag them down and scold them on the street? That's not a wise thing to do.
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