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Tesla loses bid to move sexual harassment lawsuit to arbitration

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla loses bid to move sexual harassment lawsuit to arbitration

#21

Post by gbronner »

Lawsuits are an astoundingly inefficient way to resolve these issues. It can easily take more money than the worker will earn in his/her career to take this to trial, and the trial will rely more on caricatures and stereotypes than the worker's actual day-to-day experience. Imagine trying to convince the next 6 people that you meet that your side is right -- it comes down to looks, sympathy, emotions, etc, all of which have no relationship to what actually happened.

The reason that employment lawyers want to get these things out of arbitration is that juries are more susceptible to emotional arguments, and the lawyers can sometimes get the company to pay their (inflated) legal fees if they win.

Arbitration is quick, fast, final, and doesn't require all the legal machinations of court. Hopefully this is not a precedent.

Re: Tesla loses bid to move sexual harassment lawsuit to arbitration

#23

Post by moistly »

Larrikin wrote: post #5
version_five wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the media doesn't like being teased by Musk, and the establishment is doing it's best to push out people who don't play along?

I find it impossible to believe people actually think like this and aren't just aggressively defending something terrible because they are invested in the person's companies.

Have you considered that some people believe most everyone is wrong, that they won’t be told what to do by others, that they are or should be in complete control their lives, that they live by their own rules, that The Man is keeping them down, etc? Musk personifies that belief system.

Re: Tesla loses bid to move sexual harassment lawsuit to arbitration

#24

Post by akomtu »

metadat wrote: post #2

Between Elongate harassment, the steady stream of safe workplace violation claims in past years, and Elon now building a crack team of aggressive street fighter lawyers, it seems rather than correct the behaviors all accused entities are doubling down. What does it signal?

It signals that Musk has gotten some powerful enemies who are pulling strings. But my bet is that he'll get away with a slap on the wrist - he's too valuable to DoD.

Re: Tesla loses bid to move sexual harassment lawsuit to arbitration

#25

Post by moralestapia »

gbronner wrote: post #21

Lawsuits are an astoundingly inefficient way to resolve these issues. It can easily take more money than the worker will earn in his/her career to take this to trial, and the trial will rely more on caricatures and stereotypes than the worker's actual day-to-day experience. Imagine trying to convince the next 6 people that you meet that your side is right -- it comes down to looks, sympathy, emotions, etc, all of whi…

I agree with you.

For this kind of thing it would've been best for them to go to arbitration and the plaintiff writing down a number on what is pretty much a blank check handed to her. That's all she could get out of this, if we're honest, and the amount could be quite generous too. The last thing Tesla/Musk want at the moment is bad PR.

Unless she wants to see Musk behind bars (highly unlikely) I don't see the point of this going to trial.

And sure, lawyers on both sides are rubbing their hands ...

Re: Tesla loses bid to move sexual harassment lawsuit to arbitration

#27

Post by ComradePhil »

Larrikin wrote: post #5
version_five wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the media doesn't like being teased by Musk, and the establishment is doing it's best to push out people who don't play along?

I find it impossible to believe people actually think like this and aren't just aggressively defending something terrible because they are invested in the person's companies.

You do realize that the "sexual harrasment" allegation is that Musk asked for a handjob from a massage therapist who was already massaging him as he lay naked... and she declined and that was the end of it... right?

Re: Tesla loses bid to move sexual harassment lawsuit to arbitration

#28

Post by armchairhacker »

alexitorg wrote: post #22

I'm curious. What is best practice here. Set up HR tribunals? Fire anyone who has a complaint made against them? Arrange counseling for affected parties? Offer voluntary arbitration?

Handle it in court. Sexual harassment is a crime, and we already have a legal system to deal with it.

Arbitration / counseling / punishment within the company is ok as long as its voluntary (by the victim). If whatever occurred isn't actually a crime, then you handle it with arbitration which is not voluntary (because the company doesn't technically need to do anything).

If the company wants to fire the accused even if they're potentiality innocent it's ultimately up to them. In an ideal world, the accused wouldn't be forced out until they're convicted (in a court of law or internal tribunal). But in practice, the accusation itself could create drama and negative reputation, so even if the accused is 100% innocent it may be best for them to need to leave anyways.

Re: Tesla loses bid to move sexual harassment lawsuit to arbitration

#30

Post by richbell »

ComradePhil wrote: post #27
Larrikin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it impossible to believe people actually think like this and aren't just aggressively defending something terrible because they are invested in the person's companies.

You do realize that the "sexual harrasment" allegation is that Musk asked for a handjob from a massage therapist who was already massaging him as he lay naked... and she declined and that was the end of it... right?

> You do realize that the "sexual harrasment" allegation is that Musk asked for a handjob from a massage therapist who was already massaging him as he lay naked... and she declined and that was the end of it... right?

I am not sure why you put sexual harassment in quotes like that: having your boss, let alone the wealthiest man in the world, make unwanted sexual advances is basically a textbook case of sexual harassment.

> Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment. > > https://www.eeoc.gov/fact-sheet/facts-about-sexual-harassmen...

Plenty of people get massages and disrobe without sexually harassing their masseuse.

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