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Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

sciencedirect.com

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Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#141

Post by outworlder »

fbanon wrote: post #16
nemo44x wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don’t spray pesticides on fruit to make people sad. Without them then fruit would be inaccessible to many people.

Without pesticides we could create more resistant cultivars.

> Without pesticides we could create more resistant cultivars.

Doesn't follow. We can create them today. Pretty sure farmers would be very happy on not having to dedicate resources to pest control.

It's probably not even feasible long term. Pests can and do adapt. The main problem is monoculture.

Also, those resistant cultivars are probably not going to do so well when it comes to other variables: shelf life, taste, etc.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#142

Post by wing-_-nuts »

biorach wrote: post #111
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6320530/ Again, it certainly wouldn't replace the cereal crops, but for fruits and vegetables that are perishable and prone to absorbing pesticides, I could easily see small scale local agg replacing our current system if the price of carbon were accurately reflected (i.e. carbon tax)

that study doesn't show that "organic farming and permaculture nearly always yields higher per acre output" It's about cultivating vegetables in a specific, labour intestine, urban environment, and is partly speculative. It's not about organic farming yields in general which are generally significantly lower that those of conventional farming.

I'm not defending a thesis here. You asked for a source for the assertion that one could have high yields under organic farming and I provided one. I understand organic farming yields are lower when comparing against most conventional agriculture, but your original assertion (I hate we don't have thread context in reply windows) was implying that we couldn't properly feed everyone fruits / veg using organic agriculture. I highly doubt that. Maybe organic would require more labor or different automation than simply dousing everything with roundup and pesticides, but we could do it. We simply have to decide to prioritize health and environmental impacts over cost.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#143

Post by outworlder »

MrYellowP wrote: post #88
nostromo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you'd rather everyone pay more for food based on your personal preferences? Even though there's a lot of evidence that these foods are entirely safe...

Yes, it's perfectly safe to spray poison, which is meant to kill living beings, onto food. Absolutely. Common sense is wrong, of course. Poison is safe. Any evidence suggesting otherwise is obviously just fabricated. Gasmasks, used when applying insecticides manually, are just for show. Laws outside of the US, which prohibit certain use of chemicals, are just random. Common sense prevails yet again.

> Yes, it's perfectly safe to spray poison, which is meant to kill living beings, onto food.

Counterpoint: we routinely ingest poison intended to kill living beings. Sometimes we even have said poison injected in our bodies.

Those poisons are also commonly known as antibiotics (anti: against, bio: life), antifungals, antihelminthics, etc

Not everything that harms pests necessarily harms human beings.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#144

Post by outworlder »

gruez wrote: post #136
xyst wrote: post #58

I can't wait until vertical farming becomes cheap enough to overtake traditional farming methods. Pesticide use will be a thing of the past while all of our food is grown locally in controlled environments. Optimizing for food taste instead of pesticide or weather resistance. Not to mention the reduced carbon footprint (due to transportation), significant decrease in water usage, and increased efficiency.

>I can't wait until vertical farming becomes cheap enough to overtake traditional farming methods There was a recent post about "World’s largest vertical strawberry farm" that recently opened[1], and the price quoted for the product was "$20 for 8 strawberries". That still seems terribly expensive, at least compared to conventional produce. What technological breakthroughs are on the horizon that would reduce that pr…

What's the cost breakdown? Can't figure that out without understanding where the money is going.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#145

Post by newsclues »

sebleon wrote: post #18
newsclues wrote: post #14

I have food allergies and have a very strict diet. Recently I had some issues with dry scalp, doctors weren’t helpful to diagnose the root cause, and I traced it to non organic carrots that removed or replaced by organic ones caused the symptoms to return. I can’t buy cheap bulk carrots, but organic ones are fine. This sounds insane but I’m starting to think the food supply isn’t as safe as we think.

Very interesting, how did you figure out carrots were the issue?

Substitution.

Changed to organic/no carrots, symptoms went away, ate cheap carrots again, boom issues returned.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#146

Post by immmmmm »

slothtrop wrote: post #75
lm28469 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trend of "we fucked up big time and need to create additional waste to take negate our fuck ups" is really worrying. Installing ultra sonic cleaners, reverse osmosis machines, AC units, &c. in every single of our houses/flats won't be sustainable

The only thing unsustainable is an indefinitely growing population, but fortunately it's projected to level off. If so it renders the arbitrary objections a moot point.

No. You are wrong. The problem is not (only) the population size, the problem is the rich that consume enormously more ressources than the poor.

https://theconversation.com/amp/emissions-inequality-there-i...

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#147

Post by outworlder »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #120
xyst wrote: post #58

I can't wait until vertical farming becomes cheap enough to overtake traditional farming methods. Pesticide use will be a thing of the past while all of our food is grown locally in controlled environments. Optimizing for food taste instead of pesticide or weather resistance. Not to mention the reduced carbon footprint (due to transportation), significant decrease in water usage, and increased efficiency.

What you are looking is called a greenhouse, they are what enable Netherlands to be the world's 2nd largest exporter of food and much of UK vegetables come from there. Vertical greenhouses trade space efficiency for energy efficiency, you have to provide lights because they can't make full use of natural sunlight. This only makes sence for some low-calorie foods, like berries and salads - you have to provide too much…

> This only makes sence for some low-calorie foods, like berries and salads - you have to provide too much light to grow something calorious like -potato

Seems to me that collecting solar energy and then using to power LEDs close to the leaves of said plants could be doable up to a certain size (or number of floors). Our panels are inefficient but plant leaves are much worse.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#148

Post by jabl »

malfist wrote: post #85
ceejayoz wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany and Switzerland have allotment gardens today; communism isn't required.

In the US we had victory gardens during times of war rationing. I personally grow one still today, but not everyone has the space, time and inclination to learn how to grow plants and preserve a harvest.

I saw some documentary on the TV about the common food people ate in various decades in the UK, and there they said that some time after WWII when rationing was ended people were so dead tired of their victory gardens that most of them were replaced with lawns or flowers in just a few short years.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#149

Post by dukeofdoom »

ldiracdelta wrote: post #125
dukeofdoom wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe and Russia has a history of peasants growing their own food. Subsequently farmland was divided into small lots. With lots of small farmers. This did not sit well with ideological goals of communism and also the soviets were in a military race with the west. Stalin wanted the state to be productively competitive with the high output large farms in America. So centrally controlled economy, and taking away land f…

The only part of your first post I object to is the attribution to communism. Literally, growing all the food and then sending it to the collection point of the commune. That didn't work at all and home plots were _allowed_ as a violation of pure communist idealogy. They existed before, they were opposed by communism, but then allowed to return because they actually work.

I don't disagree with that. I just wanted to advocate for something more like it here. Allowing more poor to be self reliant and sufficient through more equitable land ownership.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#150

Post by codeflow2202 »

Combine this article with the other one about contamination of fruits and vegetables in Europe and we have a pretty bad picture of the situation:

European citizens have been exposed to a dramatic rise in the frequency and intensity of residues of the most toxic pesticides on fruits and vegetables sold in the EU. This report and its primary conclusion contradict official claims that toxic pesticides use is declining and that food residue levels are under control. This report also exposes a complete failure by Member States and the European Commission to implement EU Regulation and protect consumers.

https://www.pan-europe.info/sites/pan-europe.info/files/publ...

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