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Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

codinghorror.com

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Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#21

Post by bhrgunatha »

brc wrote: post #11

So true that you can't explain to people. You can try, but they will either get the horror, or the bliss, but they'll never understand the strange and gut-bustingly hard mix of the two, and how quickly it swings from one to the other. When they are defying you and just threw food over the kitchen, you'll get grey hairs trying to fight the urge to blow your top. You'll say things you promised yourself you would never…

One thing that surprised me immensely was the unexpected new perspective and sense of respect for my own parents who had obviously been through it all themselves.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#22

Post by michaelll »

gbog wrote: post #15
arethuza wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's amazing just how much you fall in love with them" And how quickly - I can vividly remember being handed my son by the midwife and having the immediate reaction of "my overriding concern in life is now to protect and love this wee thing".

For me the main discovery is that of pure bidirectional unconditional love

Sure, I loved him from the start, but he really wasn't very interactive in the beginning and definitely a lot of work. For me the true bond really came when the little guy started following me everywhere, crawling with great effort, just not to lose sight of me.

Yes, it is a burden when I am trying to fix a cup of coffee and he's standing there holding my leg making it difficult to walk from the counter to the sink, but the joyous expression he gets when I instead bend down on my knees and tickle him or blow on his stomach is pure happiness worth all the work we've put in so far :)

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#23

Post by pestaa »

bambax wrote: post #8

> 49% incredible pain in the ass, 51% most sublime joy you've ever felt; that one percent makes all the difference. Between 49 and 51 I count a difference of two percents? > Turns out, we're having two babies, due in mid-February 2012. Aha. Let's talk again in a year or two, see who you'd throw under a bus. I have three of those myself. I don't really subscribe to this whole "kids are wonderful" cliché. The first kid…

If they misbehave, that's another story to discuss.

But the manner in which you publicly talk about your own family is just disgusting.

I have only higher words even about my dog even with the headaches she causes sometimes.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#24

Post by CPlatypus »

gbog wrote: post #14

It is nice to see some positive words about having kids. But still what is so hard? Spending less time online? I have the impression that raising kids is much harder in the US.

You have less free time, in smaller increments, and no longer under your control. Let's say you have no children, and work a standard forty-hour week. I know that's not common here, but bear with me. The thing is, that other 108 hours per week is yours, and you can arrange it as you like. You can choose to work longer hours at a startup, or spend time on strenuous hobbies. You can choose to stay up late and sleep in late. You can choose to work more one day to guarantee yourself a large block of free time another day. Whatever you do, it's a choice.

Now you have a kid. That 108 hours just turned into 80 or less - much less in the early stages for just about any parent, still less for at least the next decade even if you're a selfish parent. What's left is no longer movable from earlier until later, or from one day or to the next, because your child's schedule is not as flexible as an adult's. You practically never get to sleep in past 8am. When you do it's because you owe your spouse a favor - and with everything else in the paragraph it's a big one. It's impossible to do anything requiring intense concentration, because your child is a high-priority interrupt and that interrupt triggers frequently. My daughter (seven) is far better than most at staying occupied by herself, and even she interrupts me all the time. You know that look you give your coworkers while they interrupt you just when you finally got into the coding groove? You can't do that to your kid, so you don't even start anything that intense. You code less, you read less, you exercise less, you game less, you get online less. Your only real opportunity to have a significant block of free time is after the kid's in bed. To take advantage of that you'll be dipping into that 56 hours per week of sleep time and using caffeine the next day to (sort of) make up for it. By the way, I hear all of these factors are compounded when you have more than one kid, and I just can't even imagine what it's like for single parents.

I'm not complaining. There are other things that more than make up for the loss of time and control over time, but it's still draining. Still, I just have to laugh at the childless people who just assume all that time is available and flexible, who don't realize that being able to ride their bikes three hours a day or spontaneously head out for a three-day binge in Vegas is a luxury. Enjoy it while you can. Enjoy it your whole life if that's your choice. Just understand that every parent in the world is going to have a different perspective on free time than you do. Even though the result is worth it, losing two thirds of your usable free time is hard.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#25

Post by rdtsc »

bhrgunatha wrote: post #21
brc wrote: post #11

So true that you can't explain to people. You can try, but they will either get the horror, or the bliss, but they'll never understand the strange and gut-bustingly hard mix of the two, and how quickly it swings from one to the other. When they are defying you and just threw food over the kitchen, you'll get grey hairs trying to fight the urge to blow your top. You'll say things you promised yourself you would never…

One thing that surprised me immensely was the unexpected new perspective and sense of respect for my own parents who had obviously been through it all themselves.

And the funny thing is, I remember them telling me "one day, if you have kids, you'll understand how this feels". I didn't take them seriously because I thought I knew everything. Now sort of understand what they meant.

Now friends with older children keep telling me "little kids -- little problems, big kids -- big problems". I hear the words, but it doesn't really mean anything to me now, just a nice saying. But something tells me though, one day I will say to them too "Yeah, I know what you meant..."

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#26

Post by fakelvis »

bodegajed wrote: post #19

This is not Parenting Magazine. I am a parent, but I came here to read about startups, technology and etc.. What happened?

No, it's not Parenting Magazine. It's also not bodegajed Magazine.

Like many have said before—to others who stress a dislike over an article that made it to HN's front page—if you don't like an article then flag it, ignore it, and/or don't click on it and comment. Move on.

I'm not a parent, but as soon as I saw this article in my feed reader I came to HN to see what other hackers had to say about parenting. I am not disappointed.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#27

Post by Tichy »

CPlatypus wrote: post #24
gbog wrote: post #14

It is nice to see some positive words about having kids. But still what is so hard? Spending less time online? I have the impression that raising kids is much harder in the US.

You have less free time, in smaller increments, and no longer under your control. Let's say you have no children, and work a standard forty-hour week. I know that's not common here, but bear with me. The thing is, that other 108 hours per week is yours, and you can arrange it as you like. You can choose to work longer hours at a startup, or spend time on strenuous hobbies. You can choose to stay up late and sleep in…

On the other hand, most people just use that usable free time to watch TV. Giving up 2/3 of your TV watching is not that hard.

As for interruptions: I know grudgingly admit that I have to go to CoWorking spaces or an office to work. (Granted, that is also lost time for the commute).

Maybe exercise could be build into the kid time somehow?

Also it might make sense to take turns with the spouse to create more free evenings.

Where I live, most kids also seem to go to kindergarden from age one, which seems rather early to me.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#28

Post by rdtsc »

beza1e1 wrote: post #12
jgrahamc wrote: post #3

"choosing to become a parent is the hardest thing I have ever done" Actually, I'd imagine that that bit is pretty easy because the subsequent parts (as described in the article) cannot be imagined before they happen. Thus choosing to become a parent probably looks pretty easy.

From personal experience, saying "Let's have a baby!" was at least as terrifying as "Will you marry me?".

I would say that having a kid to me seems like a lot bigger change than getting married. But of course I am married already, so maybe that in retrospect doesn't seem like such a big change...

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#29

Post by bambax »

pestaa wrote: post #23
bambax wrote: post #8

> 49% incredible pain in the ass, 51% most sublime joy you've ever felt; that one percent makes all the difference. Between 49 and 51 I count a difference of two percents? > Turns out, we're having two babies, due in mid-February 2012. Aha. Let's talk again in a year or two, see who you'd throw under a bus. I have three of those myself. I don't really subscribe to this whole "kids are wonderful" cliché. The first kid…

If they misbehave, that's another story to discuss. But the manner in which you publicly talk about your own family is just disgusting. I have only higher words even about my dog even with the headaches she causes sometimes.

Thanks for commenting, because I can't understand the downvotes. I still don't see where I "publicly talk about my own family" in a "disgusting" way, but if that's how my comment comes across, it sure looks bad.

For all it's worth, I love my kids. Of course. And I would throw myself under a bus for any of them. Of course. And I almost have, twice (under my motorbike, which is not a bus, but weights over 400 pounds).

My point is: who doesn't love his kids??!? (And who cares?)

- - -

Edit: this may bring more downvotes, but it's worth it if it helps me understand myself.

I profoundly disliked Jeff's post. I should have said so instead of trying to be funny about it, but then I would have had to explain. Well, I have to explain anyway. So there.

If parenting should teach you anything, it's that your kids are not you. They are not part of you, either. They're them; they're persons. Jeff says so near the end, but I'm afraid he doesn't understand what it means.

Contrary to what most people apparently believe, praising your own kids in public, or your love for them, isn't helping them. It's helping you. It's using them to project a better image of you. It objectifies them: in fact, it's a kind of abuse.

Re: Jeff Atwood On Parenthood

#30

Post by ra »

Tichy wrote: post #13

Nicely written, although I have to say I don't find having a baby quite as horrible as most other parents seem to find it. Exhausting at times, yes, but nothing that gets me angry. As for my old life - maybe I wasn't partying hard enough, because I don't really miss it that much. OK, it is terrifying, but not because the kid is a terrorist. It is terrifying because life suddenly has you by the guts. I guess I cared a…

I guess I cared a little about my own survival before, but now I really want to survive to be able to be there for my kid...

Exactly how I feel.

Nicely written, although I have to say I don't find having a baby quite as horrible as most other parents seem to find it. Exhausting at times, yes, but nothing that gets me angry.

Wait, it'll come!

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