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Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

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Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#101

Post by ch4s3 »

biorach wrote: post #98
ch4s3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Organic farming exists. Organic especially in the US, but also in the EU, doesn't mean no herbicides and pesticides[1][2]. Some of the non-synthetic insecticides are FAR more dangerous for people[3]. A popular organic pesticide from the recent past worked by destroying cell mitochondria in a vast swath of eukaryotic cells, nasty stuff. [1] https://www.global-organics.com/post.php?s=2018-02-02-are-pe... . [2] https:…

Note that as far as I'm aware Rotenone is not on the list of EU approved substances for organic farming. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I should have been more clear, that one was allowed in the US, but some of the things that are allowable in the EU aren't necessarily super safe. Generally speaking really effective natural pesticides were dangerous for humans.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#102

Post by minsc_and_boo »

toshk wrote: post #29
kickout wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely nothing about organic production implies less pesticide. Opposite is true actually.

Except a lot of data, and stricter rules See: https://research.wur.nl/en/publications/cocktails-of-pestici... .

Organic dangerously commits the natural fallacy.

Up until very recently, organic included the use of rotenone, which is a 'naturally occurring' poison that causes parkinson's in mammals.

Modern synthetic pesticides are far, far from great but they're still better than their natural counterparts.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#103

Post by ClumsyPilot »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #80
lm28469 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trend of "we fucked up big time and need to create additional waste to take negate our fuck ups" is really worrying. Installing ultra sonic cleaners, reverse osmosis machines, AC units, &c. in every single of our houses/flats won't be sustainable

Everything is a tradeoff. It's very easy to label things as waste in isolation. The reality is pesticides and other crop technologies substantially increase efficiency of the land we're using. This means per capita: we're using less land (more back to nature), losing less crop (less fuel/maintenance wasted), and requiring an increasingly smaller percentage of the population to tend to crops.

No, absolutely not everything is a tradeoff, many things like eating meat or going to a casino are a total waste of resources

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#104

Post by wing-_-nuts »

biorach wrote: post #79
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As Sri Lanka recently found, it is difficult to feed all of your people by switching to organic. Oh come now. I don't really think we can use a country who had to suddenly switch from using inputs to making due without them as a good test case for organic farming. Those are absolutely less than ideal conditions. Everything I've read on organic farming and permaculture nearly always yields higher per acre output (may…

> Everything I've read on organic farming and permaculture nearly always yields higher per acre output You'd really need to cite some sources on that

For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6320530/

Again, it certainly wouldn't replace the cereal crops, but for fruits and vegetables that are perishable and prone to absorbing pesticides, I could easily see small scale local agg replacing our current system if the price of carbon were accurately reflected (i.e. carbon tax)

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#108

Post by biorach »

ch4s3 wrote: post #101
biorach wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that as far as I'm aware Rotenone is not on the list of EU approved substances for organic farming. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I should have been more clear, that one was allowed in the US, but some of the things that are allowable in the EU aren't necessarily super safe. Generally speaking really effective natural pesticides were dangerous for humans.

Sure, whatever. Organic farming isn't perfect and isn't a panacea, and I've zero interest in defending it, or in attacking high-chemical factory farming for that matter.

We need to gain a better understanding of our food production systems, the full chain, precursors (seed, fertiliser and chemical suppliers), farms, processors, distributors, retailers.

We need to stop thinking in terms of pure cost. We need to stop thinking in terms of good and evil (good organic farmers vs evil corporations or whatever). We need, as a society, to gain a proper understanding of the complexity of the food chain, of the trade-offs involved in various methods. Of the advantages and disadvantages...

It's appalling that there are chemical residues in our food, possibly to an extent that it has health implications visible in a study such as the one cited.

It's amazing that in most countries food is now much much more accessible for the vast majority of the population than it was, say, a century ago.

To a large extent these are two sides of the same coin.

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#109

Post by pgodzin »

symby wrote: post #107
pgodzin wrote: post #106

Which fruits and vegetables are low and high in pesticide residue?

Organic FV are low in pesticide residue. Conventional FV are high.

Lot of comments here mention pesticide use in organic FV as well, just not synthetic pesticides. Are there any distinctions within organic and conventional of fruits and vegetables that have low pesticide use regardless of organic or not?

Re: Pesticide residues could negate the health benefits of fruits and vegetables

#110

Post by biorach »

minsc_and_boo wrote: post #102
toshk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except a lot of data, and stricter rules See: https://research.wur.nl/en/publications/cocktails-of-pestici... .

Organic dangerously commits the natural fallacy. Up until very recently, organic included the use of rotenone , which is a 'naturally occurring' poison that causes parkinson's in mammals. Modern synthetic pesticides are far, far from great but they're still better than their natural counterparts.

> Modern synthetic pesticides are far, far from great but they're still better than their natural counterparts.

Far too much generalisation there. There are thousands of synthetic pesticides, and dozens (hundreds?) of "natural" ones (ranging from gelatine to roteome).

A broad brush comparison is useless

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