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The Xinjiang Police Files

xinjiangpolicefiles.org

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Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#171

Post by watwut »

aasasd wrote: post #106

As we saw after the invasion of Ukraine, the West can mount a swift, concerted and effective response, that deals a lot of damage to the offending country's economy. I'm sure that evidence of Xinjiang crimes will invoke the same kind of decisive action.

It happened only after it turned out Ukraine has own army able to do the bloody part by themselves. No western army is fighting there. It is also funny how you ignore role of Eastern European countries who engaged heavily in the matter.

While I distinctively recall non-westerners arguments on HN about how "Russia treats Ukraine with kids gloves" or "America did bad things and therefore it is OK for Russia to invade Ukraine" (somehow punishing Ukrainians for American history). Or how "since countries around Ukraine did not locked Ukrainians inside, they are bad nah, I will not talk about how our own countries treats refugees nah".

"It is unfair to provide material support to Ukraine, unless you are willing to also invade and occupy China over their crimes" is not particularly strong argument. Especially not if the fully expected corollary is "but if you do what we now demand we will blame you for international aggression".

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#172

Post by simonh »

grapeskin wrote: post #132
simonh wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In China you are a member of an ethnic minority if one of your grandparents was of that ethnicity, who themselves might only have had one grandparent of that ethnicity. There are also incentives for people to register as members of minority groups such as scholarships*, yet also stark differences in the treatment of members of minorities who are or are not integrated into Chinese culture and the communist party in pa…

> In China you are a member of an ethnic minority if one of your grandparents was of that ethnicity, who themselves might only have had one grandparent of that ethnicity. I mean, America has the one drop rule too, and you’re highly suggested to pick your most minority group any time you apply to a job, school, or basically anything. So you have people who are 1/128th Cherokee trying to game diversity benefits while p…

The situation for indigenous people in the USA is awful, sure, but it's not even remotely equivalent. The tribes determine who is or isn't a tribal member. In China the state determines such things and are actively packing the minorities with Han.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#173

Post by throwaway290 »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #137
shellfishgene wrote: post #33

I'm always surprised how little interest there seems to be from the international muslim community in the Xinjiang situation, given that at least parts of it really blow up over even minor anti-Islam actions by single individuals quite regularly. The actions of China seem at least in part aimed at extinguishing Islam as a religion in the region, which would seem far worse than some person drawing a cartoon. But maybe…

It's more complicated than that. The majority of China's Muslims are Hui, who are ethnically Han Chinese and thus not considered an existential threat to the state. The Uyghurs, on the other hand, are genetically and linguistically different, live in territory that was not originally Chinese (Xinjiang literally means "New Territory") and would genuinely prefer to have their own state. Of course, the CCP is very avers…

> Hui Muslims employed by the state, unlike Uyghurs, are allowed to fast during Ramadan. The number of Hui going on Hajj is expanding and Hui women are allowed to wear veils, but Uyghur women are discouraged from wearing them. Muslim ethnic groups in different regions are treated differently by the Chinese government with regard to religious freedom. Religious freedom exists for Hui Muslims, who can practice their religion, build mosques and have their children attend them; more controls are placed on Uyghurs in Xinjiang. Hui religious schools are allowed, and an autonomous network of mosques and schools run by a Hui Sufi leader was formed with the approval of the Chinese government.

So yeah, this is not directed at Muslims so much as it's directed at people of Uyghur ethnicity very specifically. It almost looks like CCP would like to keep the territory, but without the inconvenient indigenous people.

And they use a mix of apartheid (which just by itself is already an internationally recognized crime against humanity) and a bunch of activities at least adjacent to genocide to get there.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#175

Post by thriftwy »

watwut wrote: post #160
thriftwy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region. That seems to be a very high bar if we compare it with USA/NATO/EU/Chinese endeavours in any of Muslim regions. The grandparent made it sound like the devastation were ongoing, which it's not. Stopping the violence is a good thing. If you don't acknowledge it, you can't even tell failure fro…

> You win a war to get a stable Chechen political regime that sort-of works and turn a warzone into a reasonably peaceful region. Not starting that war in the first place would be even better. > Stopping the violence is a good thing. Not committing it in the first place is even better.

It is a region of Russia and it is practically landlocked from all sides by other Russia, and also it seems to have started the war by attacking Dagestan (also in Russia).

So even comparing it to Xinjiang, which China could plausible give away, Russia could not get rid of Chechnya even of it wanted.

What other outcome would you expect? But, that has ended 15 years ago, by now.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#176

Post by femto »

ineiti wrote: post #174

The wayback machine has you: https://web.archive.org/web/20220524092913/https://www.xinji... Unfortunately the documents haven't been saved before the site went down :(

A more recent snapshot looks to have got it all:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220524110417/https://www.xinji...

(Thanks to throwaway290)

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#177

Post by Melting_Harps »

refurb wrote: post #162
Melting_Harps wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where are the death camps? The gas chambers? This comment has no place on HN for sheer idiocy and sensationalism. Gaza itself is an open air internment camp, under Israeli occupation; they use illegal munitions on civilian targets, and claim that its extremist reside within those homes. Their is a literal wall surrounding all of Gaza in order to keep them in place, and you have the audacity to make such a claim? An…

I find it funny when Israel is accuse of "controlling the borders of Gaza". I mean, by the same logic, the US controls the borders of Canada.

> I find it funny when Israel is accuse of "controlling the borders of Gaza". I mean, by the same logic, the US controls the borders of Canada.

They literately prevent aid from coming into Gaza, and you think it's the same thing?

Moreover, Palestinian fisherman aren't allowed to go beyond 1 mile out to shore as the Israeli State forbids them from going any further and are monitored and surveilled, under some obtuse justification. Shelling of civilian areas is a common occurrence.

What you should find funny is your capacity for false equivalences, and perhaps how sick of a sense of humour you have that you can find any of this even remotely amusing.

None of this funny, it's a blight on humanity that such a thing occurs in the 21st Century (be it in China, Russia or Israel) and that we can still deem people 'less than' based on some a cult like nationalist, and genocidal ideology which is what Nazism was ultimately based on.

I use that work specifically to reflect the hypocrisy of the Zionist agenda because they have used it for so long to shut down any discourse on the matter and has allowed this to occur in the first place, but I could easily refer to any other number of genocides, too. I choose not to.

The point is: I choose my words carefully, so should you.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#178

Post by schnable »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #59
dr_faustus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also find that interesting in contrast to the constant outrage about the situation of Palestinians in Israel which certainly has many highly problematic aspects but to me still seems to be a far cry from the situation of Muslims in China or the treatment of the predominantly Muslim Chechnians by Russia. It seems to be quite hypocritical by the governments of Muslim countries.

It is not a far cry, it is in fact almost exactly the same situation, although to my knowledge the crimes of Israel are much more well documented by many sources. Also note that it has taken almost a decade to get to this level of awareness and still to this day Israel critics are called anti-semites and worse. Hopefully more widespread awareness and outrage about the treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang comes soon. EDIT…

Israel for all its faults vis-a-vis the Palestinians is not committing ethnic cleansing or anything close to it. People who claim genocide by the Israelis are either anti-semetic or basing their opinions on anti-semitic disinformation.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#179

Post by throwaway290 »

femto wrote: post #141
gullevek wrote: post #124

Host already gone. So China did its work.

Can anyone from Cloudflare comment on why the site is down?

HTTP 502 hints at upstream error which makes me think it's not been set up with sufficiently aggressive caching at CDN level, meaning if someone DoSes Cloudflare then Cloudflare DoSes Xinjiang Police Files. This would be the most charitable scenario.

Re: The Xinjiang Police Files

#180

Post by Melting_Harps »

free-malloc wrote: post #130
thaumasiotes wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the situation of Muslims in China Here's your problem; trying to talk about "the situation of Muslims in China" is incoherent. Islam has been an accepted (though small) part of Chinese culture for many centuries, and it still is. The Uyghurs are highly atypical Muslims in China who don't speak Chinese and don't participate in Chinese culture, instead preferring their own rival culture. That (and rebelliousness) is…

I think this is nearly entirely wrong. It's entirely about power and god. Xi Jinping has cracked down on Christianity shutting down many churches. China has other ethnicities besides the Han, which don't speak Mandarin. If the Uyghurs had no faith they would be safe. There is little room for religion unless the religion is centralized and submissive to the state. In some sense religion undermines the state.

> In some sense religion undermines the state.

In the 21st century, especially under the CCP, they're just competing forces more than direct adversaries, they both strive to do the same thing. And for most of History, the Church was the State.

It's parallels are quite visible, and now most wars are fought not for the deliberate imposition of deities, but rather for the new pantheon of self-declared god's: political leaders.

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