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Toxic Positivity

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Re: Toxic Positivity

#71

Post by wirrbel »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #69

I just went to a massive workshop by Esther Hicks, famous for “law of attraction” and emphasis on positive emotions for manifesting deliberate creation. She presents a classic ”New Thought” philosophy—and her ideas are a big target of those espousing the dangers of Toxic Positivity. I was happily surprised. She emphasized the value of negative emotions, the importance of noticing and identifying negative emotions, an…

It’s a typical phenomenon that the original message/idea is often distorted by its replication.

Usually the ideas tend to mutete to be more simple to pass on. So Balance and counterpoint is lost, but sometimes stuff is added because it helps „victims“ to pass on the narrative.

Key example is agile: key ideas are lost (continuous re-evaluation of software development and user/stakeholder interaction), while other stuff replicates under the same label like crazy (sprints, story point estimation ).

At the end of the day I find it’s totally plausible how a „manage your emotions and don’t be permanently negative, stay open and don’t reject things straight away“ can turn into something like „be positive, always, and smile at all the traffic lights on your way to work“ (no kidding)

Re: Toxic Positivity

#72

Post by lwhi »

noodleman wrote: post #47
lwhi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my mind, I think toxic is a byword for 'extreme behaviour'; and furthermore, extreme behaviour is often a symptom of a personality disorder at its most pronounced.

I always assumed "toxic" means that it affects others it comes into contact with. e.g. You've had a bad day at work: Negative: Being a bit withdrawn and avoiding conversation Toxically negative: Shouting at your wife and kids

I'd be a bit more charitable .. I'd label it as toxic if the extreme negative behaviour was a regular occurrence.

Re: Toxic Positivity

#73

Post by UncleEntity »

Xylakant wrote: post #27
zeroth32 wrote: post #21

> Airing concerns or struggles in the workplace can be really nerve-wracking. Often, we are afraid of appearing unprofessional. We fear being judged negatively. This is the perfect opportunity to practice active listening. This ^ is toxic positivity. I am not unpaid therapist for my work colleagues. I have my own problems.

OTOH, it’s useful to know when your colleagues are struggling, either professionally or personally. It puts their reactions into context and helps anticipating their performance. If they’re struggling, they will not be giving their best show, as will you and as will I. We’ll all drop the ball, be slower,… and knowing I should expect that helps me, because I can try to cover some of their bases, as will they when I’m…

> Showing that you do care to a certain extend helps people share those feelings.

Unless you don’t actually care and can’t tell them “get your shit together on someone else’s time, dude” because that would be a micro-aggression since they don’t like being called dude.

Re: Toxic Positivity

#74

Post by JackFr »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #67
orwin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit my job because I was a bit bored, my new job isn't better, but at least I have 10 weeks of vacations, and my 35h a week allows me to enjoy my life without sacrificing either sleep or family when I'm not traveling. Is this toxic positivity?

Obviously not. However, most people would be flagged by the interviewer for saying "I was a bit bored", and subsequently discarded unless their skillset is hugely in demand. Modesty is only appreciated when decorated with a dose of positivity.

“Why did you leave?”

A better opportunity presented itself.

Or, “Why are you looking?”

Exploring better opportunities more suited to my skills and personality.

It’s fairly easy to not lie and present things in a favorable way.

Re: Toxic Positivity

#75

Post by lwhi »

darkerside wrote: post #62
lwhi wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my mind, I think toxic is a byword for 'extreme behaviour'; and furthermore, extreme behaviour is often a symptom of a personality disorder at its most pronounced.

Like toxic skiing? Or toxic mountain climbing? Toxic marathon running?

I guess the definition should be revised to "extreme behaviour, directly having an overbearing effect on another person's wellbeing".

Maybe there could also be a side definition for running competitively in a nuclear contamination zone though!

Re: Toxic Positivity

#76

Post by donthellbanme »

mlindner wrote: post #44

How about the toxicity of attacking positivity? This world has WAY too much negativity right now and it's downright harmful to human psyche. People are freaking giving up on the world and deciding that they should never have children because they think they'd just be bring them into a doomed world. That's when you know negativity has gone so far. Some toxic positivity on the odd occasion to counteract the nonsensical…

No post body was provided.

Re: Toxic Positivity

#77

Post by saturnaga »

noodleman wrote: post #28

This is quite a thin article. Not really much to go on in either direction. I'd be interested in some better reading on the subject if anyone has any. Personally, I think I see a lot more toxic negativity than toxic positivity in the world and I've rarely heard the phrase "toxic positivity" used in a justifiable situation. Not to say that toxic positivity can't exist but quite often articles discussing it come across…

People can do whatever they want, I will continue to be positive toxic.

When someone asks me how I am doing I am always "great". If anything it is a form of self hypnosis to boost my own mood. Of course there is a contagion when it comes to individual mood both positive and negative.

Twitter of course is not reality. I mean this in the context of the really real world.

Re: Toxic Positivity

#78

Post by sojournerc »

JackFr wrote: post #74
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously not. However, most people would be flagged by the interviewer for saying "I was a bit bored", and subsequently discarded unless their skillset is hugely in demand. Modesty is only appreciated when decorated with a dose of positivity.

“Why did you leave?” A better opportunity presented itself. Or, “Why are you looking?” Exploring better opportunities more suited to my skills and personality. It’s fairly easy to not lie and present things in a favorable way.

That's exactly GP's point. You're not expected to tell the truth as it is, instead offering some euphemism is the "right" way to get hired.

Re: Toxic Positivity

#79

Post by jasperry »

For a more substantive analysis of how an excess of positivity is causing problems, I highly recommend Byung-Chul Han's book "The Burnout Society".

He argues that Western culture has shifted from a negative "thou shalt not" model to a positive, open-ended "you can" model, and that this is a cause of much of the depression and burnout we see today. And he says that this has happened in capitalist societies because it results in greater efficiency--it gets people to exploit themselves rather than needing to be driven by others.

Re: Toxic Positivity

#80

Post by throw__away7391 »

groceryheist wrote: post #7
Mordisquitos wrote: post #5

I very much agree that so-called "toxic positivity" can be a problem, but I found this article greatly lacking in any sort of substance. There are no specific examples of toxic positivity, no explanation as to why its bad other than vacuous general terms repeated ad nauseam (did she mention toxic positivity invalidates lived experiences?), and no in depth explanation as to the alternatives other than what is essentia…

Completely agree! This was disjointed and didn't have a point. Wish I could downvote.

That's because the author seems to be firmly anchored in a coastal elite bubble. In particular this phrase:

> invalidate someone's lived experience

...is particularly cringe-inducing. These are code words. This is not how any normal human in the English speaking world has ever spoken prior to exposure to a particular brand of (most often quite expensive) education, and let's be clear--that's the whole point. People train themselves to use this language as a way to demonstrate their membership or desired membership in the current socio-economic elite. It is not really any different from learning to use the "correct" fork at a 19th century dinner party, even to the point where watered-down versions of both trickling into middle class.

So let's say now you've gone and learned these phrases and weaponized your speech in this manner, great on you right? Wrong! You've lost your voice, everything you say is now constrained without the confines of this language and carries connotations set by someone else that overshadow whatever you may wish to express, but more importantly, your speech is now a constant performance. Just as how nourishment was not the point of dinner, what's being discussed is not the point of conversation when using this language. People who talk this way occasionally slip up and deviate slightly and you can hear in their voice how much anxiety this causes them, usually some small nervous joke follows. Crippling anxiety is perhaps the defining trait of these folks, to the point that many many of them, a far higher percentage than you'd expect naturally, are on some kind of anti-anxiety drugs. This risk of saying something that puts you out of step with the tastemakers grows enormously as your investment increases, better to say nothing of substance at all while using lots and lots of this language and drop in as many of these code words as possible.

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