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I'm quitting my PhD

blog.derhagen.eu

331–340 of 382 posts

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#331
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> from what I'm hearing so far: There is little to no value assigned to the _paper_ I was given this advice when I was wavering on whether to finish my Ph.D. In fact, a guy who had finished his Ph.D. told me don't bother, nothing changed from before or after he got it. Then I went to his wedding and he had the DJ refer to him as "Dr." the entire night in front of his entire family, and by God did they care. They were…

> and by God did they care. I find it generally bad advice to chase after something when the main driver is social prestige. For one, by definition, you hinging your esteem to the (possibly fickle) opinion of somebody else and two, the people who are in fields for status rather than because of intrinsic joy of the work itself are often not the most productive or ethical. For example, the surgeons I know who are in th…

> the people who are in fields for status rather than because of intrinsic joy of the work itself are often not the most productive or ethical.

On the other hand, I've found that people who convince themselves that they are pursing a path based on intrinsic joy of the work itself quickly lose interest when they hit a wall and the work becomes not fun at all but a slog.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#332
One thing people don't realize is that there's no training for advising Ph.D. students. Or, if there is, it's very rudimentary.

Compare this with how much training there is for K-12 education, or for teaching undergraduate courses. So, people who start a Ph.D. face the brutal switch from getting very well polished education to getting to be advised "by the ear".

Many advisors are just naturals. Guess what, students flock to them, so when it's your turn, it's likely that they already have 6 or maybe 8 or 10 Ph.D. students. Some advisors are just really bad, and people avoid them. But most advisors are in between. The experience of being their student will be so-so.

But more generally, the experience of doing a PhD will be very different from undergrad. The pattern I noticed is plenty of introductory courses (i.e. upper undergrad level), and plenty of very advanced (or "Topics") courses. Very few intermediate courses. So, a lot of your education will be self-provided. In the end, that's good, you can't expect to be spoon-fed all your life. But many students find this experience quite difficult.

Well, who said a PhD is a walk in the park? You need to work hard.

Your advisor is not perfect? Or maybe is the opposite of perfect? Welcome to the party. Lots and lots of other PhD students have the same problem. Some quit, but most don't. You can switch your advisor. You can talk to other PhD students and postdocs, and see what they work on, maybe you can realign your research topic. You can even switch departments.

Now, about quantum computation. It's the first course I took when I started my PhD more than 20 years ago. It was just as promising at the time as it is now. My conclusion: quantum computation will be just like nuclear fusion, 20 or 30 years in the future.

But if you decided you want to pursue research in quantum computation, presumably you went beyond an introductory course, and you came to the conclusion that there's something worth pursuing. If only now you find out that the emperor has no clothes, then maybe it's your fault too for not paying attention during those introductory classes.

So, sorry for what you've been through. You're not the only one who finds the PhD experience a tough one. Thrown in water and asked to swim is how many others find the experience. Most do not drown.

As others have said it in this thread, outing your advisor is not that cool. I'm happy you decided to pull down the post. Good luck in your future endeavors.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia is full of mechanisms to negatively judge your research work. In fact judgement is pretty much the only constant in the field: every single piece of work you do will be under constant scrutiny, will be torn apart both before and after publication, and your entire (research) value will be harshly judged by outsiders on a more or less constant basis. The one positive of this environment that when you see someo…

> The one positive of this environment that when you see someone who has succeeded in publishing a substantial amount, it's safe to presume that their work is not entirely without merit. That's not a 100% guarantee, but it's a good heuristic. A post like this implies that the author's personal judgement is more insightful than a process that I know to be enormously thorough and harsh [...] This has not been my experi…

Complaining about flaws in a few papers is like saying “I found a piece of software with a bug” and then claiming software engineering is a broken field based on those examples. The argument about peer review is not that it’s perfect on any given paper, but that someone who has repeatedly survived a publication competition with a ~20% success rate and then got other serious researchers to cite and build their work is probably not a total piker. Everyone makes a few mistakes and papers, but in the aggregate it is a shockingly hard gauntlet to run, whatever your impressions may be from the sidelines.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#334
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area of academia, we train about 4 mediocre PhDs for every good PhD that can do excellent, independent research. If we had more good researchers, we could create more positions for them. But right now most of our graduates don't want to do research or suck at it and go into industry. Not to mention the pay differential. I also sit on a graduate admissions committee, and it's hard to find good students. We have…

You make 5 people to go through long and demanding training, knowing that 4 out of 5 will have to change careers afterward, as the training wasn't a good fit for them. Just so that you can weed out that 1 out of 5 to hire. Doesn't this sound a bit exploitative to you? > it's hard to find good students Maybe because you provide such a bad deal for the majority of your students?

We don't make anybody do anything.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#335
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and by God did they care. I find it generally bad advice to chase after something when the main driver is social prestige. For one, by definition, you hinging your esteem to the (possibly fickle) opinion of somebody else and two, the people who are in fields for status rather than because of intrinsic joy of the work itself are often not the most productive or ethical. For example, the surgeons I know who are in th…

> the people who are in fields for status rather than because of intrinsic joy of the work itself are often not the most productive or ethical. On the other hand, I've found that people who convince themselves that they are pursing a path based on intrinsic joy of the work itself quickly lose interest when they hit a wall and the work becomes not fun at all but a slog.

Like monks??

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The one positive of this environment that when you see someone who has succeeded in publishing a substantial amount, it's safe to presume that their work is not entirely without merit. That's not a 100% guarantee, but it's a good heuristic. A post like this implies that the author's personal judgement is more insightful than a process that I know to be enormously thorough and harsh [...] This has not been my experi…

Complaining about flaws in a few papers is like saying “I found a piece of software with a bug” and then claiming software engineering is a broken field based on those examples. The argument about peer review is not that it’s perfect on any given paper, but that someone who has repeatedly survived a publication competition with a ~20% success rate and then got other serious researchers to cite and build their work is…

> Complaining about flaws in a few papers is like saying “I found a piece of software with a bug” and then claiming software engineering is a broken field based on those examples.

My point wasn't a complaint about a few papers, rather, important papers that presumably have had a lot of eyeballs go over them in addition to being peer reviewed. If those papers have serious flaws, then I think that does say something about the standards in academia broadly.

One reason why I don't work in academia is that too many academics resist the idea that there is a quality problem.

Also: I didn't say that my field was broken or anything like that. It's not optimal, but for the most part it's okay. That has little to do with peer review.

> someone who has repeatedly survived a publication competition with a ~20% success rate and then got other serious researchers to cite and build their work is probably not a total piker

Sure, it's evidence that the work is good, but it's not particularly strong evidence in my view.

> whatever your impressions may be from the sidelines.

If you're implying that I haven't published in a peer-reviewed venue myself, you're mistaken. I've never had a problem publishing. I think that's because I agree more with Gauss: "few, but ripe". Unfortunately "publish or perish" reins supreme in academia, which probably explains why so many people have trouble as they seem to try to produce "least publishable units". Borderline papers like that of course will have trouble.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#337

For what it's worth, I burned out sometime in the late 90s just after video cards came out around 1997, because I could see how they would drive video game design towards a narrow branch of DSP/rasterization and building derivative games with cookie cutter libraries. At the time, I was more interested in getting away from all of that and exploring stuff like ray tracing and artificial life. My interest in video games…

What you’re looking for exists with stuff like Gleason’s theorem and noncontextuality, but it’s not what you would train up in if you wanted to be “productive”.

I'll use your comment to correct myself, I meant to write "qubit" heh. Thanks yes, after posting my comment, I was researching qubits and Hilbert spaces and stumbled onto ergodic processes, where the properties of a process can be inferred from random sampling:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergodic_process

I believe that combining it with the Born rule (which gives the probability that a measurement of a quantum system will yield a given result) might lead to Gleason’s theorem:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_rule

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleason%27s_theorem

This is all so far outside of my wheelhouse though that I'm almost certainly not really saying anything.

Which is the fundamental issue I take with quantum mechanics. It introduces too much new terminology for simple concepts because experts appreciate the short notation to be productive, as you said. I've been programming for three decades but would never try to explain it in Lisp. I'd start with Javascript, but demonstrate where each conceptual flaw occurred so that the student derives much of Lisp before I get to it.

The heart of my cognitive dissonance is: I need to know what separates theory from quantum systems in real life. If we know what we're trying to do, then we should be able to build it in a simulator and just pause it periodically and examine the state.

Is the limit of that the speed of our computers? Is it that quantum mechanics plays out at the speed of light? Is it that entangled particles are really connected regardless of distance, because without hidden variables they have to be, so can't be simulated?

So far the best I can do is, imagine we're breaking N bit cryptography. We have one key, and know a mathematical relationship to the key we're trying to find, but the search space is huge. Maybe every time we sample, some percentage of the qubits reveal something, but we don't know which ones. Maybe we sample more, and see that certain ones tend to stay the same. Maybe when we get down to a tractable number of qubits remaining (like 32), we just brute force search the remaining bits classically by iterating over the (2^32) permutations?

Apparently there's just no path in layman's terms to get from my improper description to what really happens. Which isn't true in computer science. If I understand a topic, it's borderline trivial to explain with metaphors.

Ok I think after writing this out, I'm looking for an open source implementation of quantum mechanics that doesn't use established terminology. Maybe it looks like a wiki with every use case and bit of errata answered. So like, everywhere that complex numbers appear, we could just use independent vectors and formulas to get the angle and magnitude. Same for matrices, forget about eigenvectors, just explain it in a way that people understand, like center of mass or the direction with the least rotational inertia. No integrals, just summation and approximation. Yes, we'd lose the abstractions that let us find new associations, but after we have working mental models, I think we'd grasp them automatically by our curiosity. Instead of hitting this woo woo wall that makes it impossible to talk about with enthusiasts like me!

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#340
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you can't be specific enough to be scientific about it, just keep it to yourself.

I'm in favor of specific criticism rather than lumping everyone together or painting with a broad brush, so on that specific point, I agree with the OP. There is no mention about needing to satisfy any specific 'standard' as you claimed. What you quoted doesn't say that either. Anyway, there isn't much meat in this thread arguing over such minutia, so I will just let you have the last word if you'd like to.

You can be in favor of whatever you want, some people like vanilla, some people like chocolate. The issue is when someone who likes vanilla claims that people who like chocolate are acting unprofessionally and doing something wrong or doing something that is purposeless when all that's really happening is the person who likes vanilla fails to even make an attempt to understand why someone would like chocolate.

Feel free to have whatever preference you want, but understand that others may have different preferences from yours and they may have good reasons for those preferences that you simply are not aware of instead of assuming the worst of them.

>What you quoted doesn't say that either.

It absolutely does and the fact that you don't realize that is a good indication you are not discussing this matter in good faith so I thank you for choosing to cease discussing this any further.

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