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I'm quitting my PhD

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Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#291

Post by Kranar »

passivate wrote: post #270
Kranar wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't accept either side of the argument as true, my point is simply that telling someone to keep their story to themselves unless they can present an argument that satisfies a scientific standard is missing the point being made. People make arguments that are purposely vague to avoid causing undue harm both to themselves and, believe it or not, to the people they are accusing. Usually you do this because you're no…

>telling someone to keep their story to themselves unless they can present an argument that satisfies a scientific standard I don't see where they made this claim, or a reference to a 'scientific standard'. Can you please point to it?

>If you can't be specific enough to be scientific about it, just keep it to yourself.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#292

Post by Beldin »

dahart wrote: post #74
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #16

I would love PhDs to be thought of as something you dive into when you have something to pursue, perhaps many years later in life rather than a follow on immediately after study. As a comparison imagine if VC funding only went to the highest scoring new grads and the business proposal was asked for after the invitation to take on VC funding. That's pretty much what's been happening with PhDs. You get the marks, you g…

It’d be pretty cool if we had a real path for later-in-life research time. I’m not sure that’s very realistic, but I’d love it too. Big problems are that kids and jobs lock you into needing to make enough money. I actually tried to join a PhD program after 5 years of industry experience, and they offered the top fellowship they had, which was not enough to cover only the health insurance for my family, not to mention…

> It’d be pretty cool if we had a real path for later-in-life research time.

We do. You can do a PhD in part-time, self-funded. Yes, your financial situation will definitely take a hit; you can control to what extent though.

Expect to need about 5-6 years of 1.5-2 days a week. If you'd like to know more, I'm happy to discuss my experiences as a supervisor of such PhD students and share what insights I have.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#293

Post by musicale »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #38

> "Aiming to produce PDF files that would be accepted at conferences (which seems to be easy-going if you sprinkle some fancy quantum vocabulary over something and hand it in to a non-quantum conference). I felt less and less comfortable in a setting that apparently expected me to pick some low-hanging – let’s call it fruits – and call it a day. After all, science is all about the pursuit of knowledge, even though th…

> I felt less and less comfortable in a setting that apparently expected me to pick some low-hanging – let’s call it fruits – and call it a day.

Why should you be uncomfortable with that? A discipline with lots of low-hanging fruit sounds like a pretty good place to be.

However, I concur regarding the quantity-over-quality problem. Personally I favor quality over quantity, both as a reader and as a writer. It wastes less of the reader's time and improves the signal-to-noise ratio of the field.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#294

Post by Kranar »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #248
Kranar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he's trying to do himself any favors. If anything he's trying to do others a favor by expressing a very common problem within academia.

Academia is full of mechanisms to negatively judge your research work. In fact judgement is pretty much the only constant in the field: every single piece of work you do will be under constant scrutiny, will be torn apart both before and after publication, and your entire (research) value will be harshly judged by outsiders on a more or less constant basis. The one positive of this environment that when you see someo…

>Academia is full of mechanisms to negatively judge your research work.

Fascinating, as I did not find this at all to be the case in general. I imagine in some cases it could be true, but for the most part I found most research in academia to not be of much interest to many people, one way or another. Hardly anyone takes much time to either validate research or to critique it.

I'm glad to hear that you managed to find something to research that caught the attention of many people/mechanisms, even if only to judge it negatively. It must mean you were doing something important, which I think is the exception and not at all the norm.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#295

Post by cycomanic »

dizzant wrote: post #149
matthewdgreen wrote: post #27

I feel for the student writing this piece and I'm sad that they've developed some bitterness at their advisors and the entire field (which I read in the piece, even if it wasn't the intent.) Everyone needs to understand something important: a PhD is first and foremost an apprenticeship. It is your opportunity to study under someone who has done a specific kind of research, and learn from that person. If that relation…

Thanks for this perspective. I am one of these mismatched PhD students. When I entered 6 years ago, no professors in my department had time to advise me. The professor for whom I was a GTA took pity on me after two years of rejection, and now serves as my committee chair despite having little to no expertise in my field. I am coadvised through a different department, but again, my coadvisor has little overlap with my…

Something I would highly recommend you to do is seek out an expert I your area of research (there would be someone) and contact them. Many academics are open to discuss ideas, work related to their research etc.. This might give you valuable feedback from someone who understands your work.

Now from your post it sounds like you don't work in the natural sciences (apologies if I assumed wrong) so you might not have publications (in many natural sciences it's very common to have multiple publications before the defence, in many humanities the thesis is the publication), if you don't be prepared to send that person some condensed work (they likely don't have time to read a whole thesis) or if you have a publication. However only do that after starting a dialogue and after they have agreed to look at some of your work.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#296

Post by matthewdgreen »

chrisseaton wrote: post #282
matthewdgreen wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we have a thesis proposal as well. However something I've learned is that no five-page document, no matter how well considered, can ever determine the optimal strategy for how to spend a 4-5 year slice of your research life. The whole point of research is to learn new things: new things sometimes imply changing direction.

In the US doesn’t the thesis proposal come after you’ve already sunk several years? In the UK you do it as part of your application.

Holding someone to a (US-style) thesis proposal is hard enough when they're already familiar with the area and have a couple of years of direct research experience under their belt. Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#297

Post by chrisseaton »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #296
chrisseaton wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US doesn’t the thesis proposal come after you’ve already sunk several years? In the UK you do it as part of your application.

Holding someone to a (US-style) thesis proposal is hard enough when they're already familiar with the area and have a couple of years of direct research experience under their belt. Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder.

> Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder.

Right - which is why it's a better check before they embark on a PhD.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#298

Post by ModernMech »

dschuetz wrote: post #278
david_l_lin wrote: post #83

I find that many of the PhD students who struggle are not prepared for the mostly self-driven nature of the pursuit, and have not had enough work experience to know how to choose a supervisor. The statistics support this: a majority of the PhD dropouts are students straight from undergrad who performed well academically, but have never had work experience. Finishing a PhD is as much about selecting a good PI as it is…

Do PhD students have much choice which supervisor they can choose? Supervisors do not come in all sizes, most of the time you have to deal with whoever is out there, whether you like them or not. I have worked within academics, not as a researcher though, and from my experience academia is not about pursuing the knowledge and sciences. That's an intrinsic motivation some researchers still might have. Academia is rath…

> academia is not about pursuing the knowledge and sciences

This criticism always gets me. Just how pure do you expect academics to be? They're already not working for the same money they could be getting in industry, now they also have to eschew prestige in their own communities, or else they're not driven by the pure intellectual pursuit of knowledge and science? When you're paid half of what you're worth, you find meaning in social constructs other than money and wealth.

> students are the hardest working bunch in academia

This is an opinion often held by students and graduates who haven't see what's behind the curtain. I've found students are always shocked to find out how much work professors actually do. This is prime material for the "what I think I do, what they think I do, what I actually do" meme.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#299

Post by cycomanic »

chrisseaton wrote: post #283
stanford_labrat wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m starting my PhD this fall and the prospect of an advisor mismatch terrifies me (having seen this first hand). Thankfully my program has 2 or 3 faculty who align well based off of my interviews but you never know…

Pick your advisor before you accept the PhD position.

I'm actually very surprised by many of the posts here. I know that in the humanities advisors are often picked which are only partly related to the research question. But I would have expected to find many more natural science/engineering PhD here. In those areas picking an advisor is directly linked to picking a topic, i.e. you pick the advisor because you want to work in his area of expertise.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#300

Post by chrisseaton »

cycomanic wrote: post #299
chrisseaton wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick your advisor before you accept the PhD position.

I'm actually very surprised by many of the posts here. I know that in the humanities advisors are often picked which are only partly related to the research question. But I would have expected to find many more natural science/engineering PhD here. In those areas picking an advisor is directly linked to picking a topic, i.e. you pick the advisor because you want to work in his area of expertise.

Right - you should apply to an advisor and compromise on the university, not apply to a university and compromise on the advisor.
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