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I'm quitting my PhD

blog.derhagen.eu

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Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#271

Post by dschuetz »

akjssdk wrote: post #243
dschuetz wrote: post #25

Good for him. Because of this: "My supervisors have a rather superficial understanding of Quantum Computing, and I feel like their idea to start a project in that domain was to a not inconsiderable extent motivated by the prospect of granted research funds , not primarily by their desire to achieve a deeper understanding of quantum stuff." It's always about grant money. Especially with anything that starts with Quant…

Why is no one considering that this PhD student is wrong and that his supervisor does in fact know what they are doing? Starting in a new field is hard, and it takes years to get a broad view of the field in order to understand what directions to take. As a PhD student you are not expected to be able to do this: this is why you have a supervisor who has enough experience. Maybe the supervisor does have a clear vision…

Because what you are saying is the default situation in research. Students don't speak up, because they are taught to keep their heads down whether they are right or wrong. The default assumption is that the supervisors know what they are doing, but this student has shared his experience that this is not always the case. Maybe you should start considering that maybe supervisors are wrong sometimes too?

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#272

Post by tomatowurst »

mmastrac wrote: post #226
tomatowurst wrote: post #92

> Because this article received somewhat more attention than I expected/feel comfortable with, I’ll take it down for a moment. Sorry. I’ll leave the disclaimer: Here's the original: Just a bit over half a year ago, I started my PhD in Quantum Computing. Even though I basically didn’t have any previous knowledge about it, I thought Quantum Computing was an interesting challenge to get into. What should I say? Quantum…

If someone takes the post down, is it a good idea to post the text here? They clearly didn't want it left up in public.

There is no implicit agreement to privacy between the author and public. Especially when there is an effort to archive the internet.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#273

Post by chinchilla2020 »

This is intended in a constructive way, so I apologize if it comes off harsh.

Many of the complaints in this post betray an attitude of someone who has recently graduated from undergraduate, is very smart, but has little experience in the professional working world.

In the future, you will encounter the exact same issues in the professional world - even amplified in some cases. Unless you want to quit every job you find, you will eventually learn the game, as most professionals do.

Primary complaints:

1. No orientation, guidance

Most jobs have minimal orientation and you can expect a fairly halfhearted orientation from peers. There will be nothing even close to an undergraduate course teaching you to do your job. For senior/managerial jobs there will be absolutely zero orientation, and there may be even be attempts by politically-minded peers/superiors to confuse you about your work responsibilities.

2. Work is 'performative'

This is widespread at startups, corporations, and government. Much of the work we do as professionals is performative or geared towards meeting OKRs and having a whiz-bang presentation to senior leaders at the end of the year.

This is not ill-intentioned. Every leader wants their org to get the resources that the company has, and must compete to impress the senior leadership. Perception is reality, and you want your work, and your people, to be perceived well.

3. Chasing low hanging fruit / Work is not important enough

Nobody is working on the exact thing they dream of, unless they are a billionaire and bankroll their own spaceX. The reason someone pays you to work is because they don't want to be doing it.

Your work will never feel important enough unless you are part of a very lucky and elite group of people who most likely have a massive financial stake in the work.

4. PhD as a gatekeeper

This is no different from any job. You have to prove yourself before they let you fly the airplane. It is just how it works. It sucks when you feel 'ready' for higher aspirations and nobody will let you move forward.

You are smart and motivated and want to do good work. The biggest challenge you will face in your career is this feeling you are feeling right now. There will always be a feeling of institutional inertia that holds you back. This will be ever-present for your entire life.

The real test of your abilities as a professional is the ability to withstand it and keep finding ways to get traction under your tires when they are spinning in the mud.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#274

Post by tomatowurst »

zekrioca wrote: post #246
tomatowurst wrote: post #92

> Because this article received somewhat more attention than I expected/feel comfortable with, I’ll take it down for a moment. Sorry. I’ll leave the disclaimer: Here's the original: Just a bit over half a year ago, I started my PhD in Quantum Computing. Even though I basically didn’t have any previous knowledge about it, I thought Quantum Computing was an interesting challenge to get into. What should I say? Quantum…

Why couldn't you simply respect the author's wish to leave the text private?

No implicit agreement to privacy can exist on the internet. Once you click publish, its archived.

I wanted to read what the author wrote.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220523144108/https://blog.derh...

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#275

Post by wombatpm »

bumby wrote: post #265
chrisseaton wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do a PhD at 21, you’ve got 40 years of productive research ahead of you. If you do one at 40 you’ve only got 21 years. Less time to research, so missed opportunity.

Thanks for replying. I think I would push back a bit on the idea that research generally only commences after a PhD. Maybe in academia, but in industry (engineering at least, I don't know on the CS side), an awful lot of research is done at masters or even bachelors levels. The people I know who've gone for a PhD later in life were already doing research and generally took the path because the credential opened profe…

PhD programs exist to create new faculty members at other institutions. Other people hiring PhDs is a side benefit that has nothing to do with the purpose of the programs.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#276

Post by sally_glance »

dehrmann wrote: post #112
dahart wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’d be pretty cool if we had a real path for later-in-life research time. I’m not sure that’s very realistic, but I’d love it too. Big problems are that kids and jobs lock you into needing to make enough money. I actually tried to join a PhD program after 5 years of industry experience, and they offered the top fellowship they had, which was not enough to cover only the health insurance for my family, not to mention…

It'd be interesting to see someone with industry experience bring industry problems to academia and explore them there. As a bonus, they might be accomplished enough professionally that they aren't interested in the publication rat race, so they're more likely to produce meaningful results (or nothing, but that's ok!) than a pointless paper.

In most faculties this is already happening, mainly because solving a problem that big corp is interested in will make it more likely to secure funding (by big corp), and in general you probably want to discuss (or even evaluate) the practical applications of your (maybe theoretical) research.

They will still be part of the rat race though. Actually it's been interesting to observe the opposite, I know some PhD students who quit because big corp offered them a nice position in their innovation branch with much more freedom (and financial security) to work on their favourite problem... A bit of luck involved to have your field of research align with big corps' goals though.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#277

Post by bumby »

wombatpm wrote: post #275
bumby wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for replying. I think I would push back a bit on the idea that research generally only commences after a PhD. Maybe in academia, but in industry (engineering at least, I don't know on the CS side), an awful lot of research is done at masters or even bachelors levels. The people I know who've gone for a PhD later in life were already doing research and generally took the path because the credential opened profe…

PhD programs exist to create new faculty members at other institutions. Other people hiring PhDs is a side benefit that has nothing to do with the purpose of the programs.

I disagree. I'm curious what you base this conclusion on? I've heard professors say similar, but it always seemed that it was because they were in an academic bubble.

If this is true, then you almost have to concede the model is broken. There will be a glut of PhDs compared to faculty positions. One of the reasons so many PhDs are disgruntled is because of the false expectation that every PhD is on track for a professorship.

I picked a random public school to see if their program states the intent is to produce faculty[1]. It seems like research is the other half of the goal along with teaching. Lots of research is done outside of faculty positions.

"The doctoral degree, i.e. the Ph.D., is primarily intended for students desiring a career in research and/or collegiate teaching."

[1]https://cse.engin.umich.edu/academics/graduate/phd-in-cse/

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#278

Post by dschuetz »

david_l_lin wrote: post #83

I find that many of the PhD students who struggle are not prepared for the mostly self-driven nature of the pursuit, and have not had enough work experience to know how to choose a supervisor. The statistics support this: a majority of the PhD dropouts are students straight from undergrad who performed well academically, but have never had work experience. Finishing a PhD is as much about selecting a good PI as it is…

Do PhD students have much choice which supervisor they can choose? Supervisors do not come in all sizes, most of the time you have to deal with whoever is out there, whether you like them or not.

I have worked within academics, not as a researcher though, and from my experience academia is not about pursuing the knowledge and sciences. That's an intrinsic motivation some researchers still might have. Academia is rather pursuing prestige, which comes from successful researchers who are guaranteed to attract grant money for projects. And this is computer science alone. Most post-docs just don't care, they are doing everything as if it's their hobby, not work. Those who care do not last long in their field. Also, students are the hardest working bunch in academia, and are paid the least. Sure, when a student is failing, it's their own fault. No one has ever fired a PI, because their student failed, why or how doesn't really matter, right?

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#280

Post by passivate »

cinntaile wrote: post #147
passivate wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not exhausting, you're just refusing to understand the other side of the argument. Do you also accept the "other side" of the argument that the author of the blog post could be wrong?

The grandparent misunderstood why the author was being vague. This is a separate issue from whether the author of the blogpost is right or wrong, it gets very confusing if you try and conflate the two as you are doing right now.

>The grandparent misunderstood why the author was being vague

Perhaps, but only the author can confirm this.

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