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I'm quitting my PhD

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Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#211

Post by whatever1 »

andreilys wrote: post #65
uniqueuid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PhD arguably gives you the opportunity to run very fast into one particular direction. Much longer than you would be allowed to run in any commercial setting. Whether or not that is a good idea is an open question. Societies, institutions and supervisors clearly benefit from individuals taking this huge risk (and often failing). One of the main problems is that we communicate very badly what a PhD is about.

A PhD arguably gives you the opportunity to run very fast into one particular direction. Much longer than you would be allowed to run in any commercial setting. It seems like most cutting edge research (and the ability to run fast) in machine learning is done in commercial settings these days, not academia.

Which is exactly why we made no progress in the theory of Machine Learning in the past decade. With massive industrial trial and error we identified things that work for specific cases, but we have no clue how to generalize.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#212

Post by [deleted] »

Benjammer wrote: post #122
sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spent a lot of time in academia, and I quite disagree. He's pointing out something that is very common in academia - common enough to be widely accepted. Saying he is unprofessional in criticizing his supervisors is like saying someone is unprofessional in criticizing his boss for demanding Leetcode style interviews. I specifically said the issue isn't criticizing. The issue is criticizing in a way which is so vagu…

>It's exhausting commenting on HN. You have to append every minor observation of a laundry list of responses to likely misinterpretations. Interesting seeing this response after you just posted: >If you can't be specific enough to be scientific about it, just keep it to yourself Was this a tongue-in-cheek demonstration of your point? Or is vague criticism only unacceptable in academia?

[deleted]

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#213

Post by dotnet00 »

andreilys wrote: post #65
uniqueuid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A PhD arguably gives you the opportunity to run very fast into one particular direction. Much longer than you would be allowed to run in any commercial setting. Whether or not that is a good idea is an open question. Societies, institutions and supervisors clearly benefit from individuals taking this huge risk (and often failing). One of the main problems is that we communicate very badly what a PhD is about.

A PhD arguably gives you the opportunity to run very fast into one particular direction. Much longer than you would be allowed to run in any commercial setting. It seems like most cutting edge research (and the ability to run fast) in machine learning is done in commercial settings these days, not academia.

Most of that research is being done by people with PhDs though. Their ability to run fast in a PhD gave them the opportunity to be able to run fast in a commercial setting.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#214

Post by btrettel »

sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #20

I'm someone who finished a PhD, here's my perspective. You don't believe your supervisor or your research group and so you quit, great. It's great that you have the critical thinking abilities and confidence in yourself to make such a decision. However, I think it's extremely unprofessional to write a blog post saying that your supervisor is superficial or your research group is performative art. I don't say this bec…

I also have a PhD.

There's a major asymmetry in US academia that public accusations can address, if done tactfully, truthfully, and specifically enough to allow a defense.

In US academia, subordinates need positive references to get jobs. That leads many to be quite deferential to their supervisors, even allowing abuse. Nominally this is supposed to highlight strengths and weaknesses of a job candidate, but it also can serve to warn potential employers away from a particular job candidate.

However, in contrast, there is no formal mechanism to warn others about bad supervisors. Given that, I am okay with tactfully, truthfully, and specifically going public about negative experiences with academic supervisors.

To be clear: I don't advocate defamation. Keep good records, and if you choose the go public, be tactful and stick to what can be easily corroborated.

Also: My experience is that subordinates are rarely given the opportunity to reply to defamatory claims made by academic supervisors when providing references. So if your focus is on the ability of someone to defend against defamation, I don't think you can defend the status quo.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#215

Post by giraffe_lady »

diarrhea wrote: post #50

I will hand in my notice tomorrow, after circa 1 year as a PhD student. In fact, I'm switching fields: from a PhD in Mechanical Engineering (energy systems) to a software developer role in a non-engineering sector. Very little of my 7 years (MSc) and subsequent circa 1 year as a PhD will carry over. Certainly an exciting step, although the program here was pretty excellent. Good supervision, full funding for the enti…

I definitely consider frustration tolerance one of if not the most important skills for software development as well.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#216

Post by nobodyandproud »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #209
sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #20

I'm someone who finished a PhD, here's my perspective. You don't believe your supervisor or your research group and so you quit, great. It's great that you have the critical thinking abilities and confidence in yourself to make such a decision. However, I think it's extremely unprofessional to write a blog post saying that your supervisor is superficial or your research group is performative art. I don't say this bec…

Do you think his chances would be better in academia if he: 1. Writes a vague blog post about his dissatisfaction with his PhD or 2. Writes a paper attacking his supervisor explicitly ? Obviously the 3rd option ("shut the fuck up if you don't want your overlords to hear") would be the best, but also perhaps the most boring.

> Obviously the 3rd option ("shut the fuck up if you don't want your overlords to hear") would be the best, but also perhaps the most boring

Best for whom?

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#218

Post by enchiridion »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #67
pvaldes wrote: post #37

What I see here is mostly fear to failure. Fear about "not keeping the high standard level that should define myself". Fear about being perceived as a mediocre scientist saying incorrect things. This is wrong. Let me tell you a thing. Nobody will cares. Not-one-single people will care about your mind image. 1-Feeling depressed or having doubts in some point of the process of writing your thesis is more common than yo…

If a PhD is mostly a research apprenticeship and there's no one who actually does that type of research you are in kind of a pointless situation

I think this is a bit narrow. I’d say it’s a credential that shows you know how to conduct research.

In my case it was less of an apprenticeship and more of a lot of stumbling around until I found a way to create research that matched my standards. My standards are modeled after the clearly explained and verifiable work in my field.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#219

Post by treesknees »

hnaccount_rng wrote: post #204
dizzant wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for this perspective. I am one of these mismatched PhD students. When I entered 6 years ago, no professors in my department had time to advise me. The professor for whom I was a GTA took pity on me after two years of rejection, and now serves as my committee chair despite having little to no expertise in my field. I am coadvised through a different department, but again, my coadvisor has little overlap with my…

You can still quit. And, at least I would recommend you doing it. I have yet to do the jump to industry, but from what I'm hearing so far: There is little to no value assigned to the _paper_. And, at least in my view, this is exactly as it should be. There are two and only two situations [0]: 1) The company requires your specific expertise and won't care about the title as you are the one with the knowledge 2) The co…

There are some programs where you can earn a Doctorate without a Master's degree. Sometimes the program will combine both into one curriculum. In these cases, it's not possible to just quit and still have a Master's. You will have a Bachelor's and a bunch of debt. Perhaps they could work with an academic advisor to apply those credits taken to a Master's, maybe fill in the gaps and be done with it.

Re: I'm quitting my PhD

#220

Post by [deleted] »

Benjammer wrote: post #122
sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spent a lot of time in academia, and I quite disagree. He's pointing out something that is very common in academia - common enough to be widely accepted. Saying he is unprofessional in criticizing his supervisors is like saying someone is unprofessional in criticizing his boss for demanding Leetcode style interviews. I specifically said the issue isn't criticizing. The issue is criticizing in a way which is so vagu…

>It's exhausting commenting on HN. You have to append every minor observation of a laundry list of responses to likely misinterpretations. Interesting seeing this response after you just posted: >If you can't be specific enough to be scientific about it, just keep it to yourself Was this a tongue-in-cheek demonstration of your point? Or is vague criticism only unacceptable in academia?

[deleted]
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