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A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

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Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#161

Post by at-fates-hands »

mcv wrote: post #63
aulin wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not just SEO, they removed essential features like verbatim search, they constantly autocorrect uncommon search terms and they keep trying to optimize searches to only look for results within your bubble

Google once started out with the goal to index all human knowledge so people could find anything, but they seem to have settled into only helping people find the obvious easy to find stuff, while actively hiding anything that's slightly out of the ordinary.

I think this is the best description of what's happened. The only thing I really use Google for any more is if I have a development or design issue. I no longer use it for shopping or literally anything else I would use it for because of what you're talking about.

A five years ago, I noticed most of the results were all paid ads, at the top and bottom of the page and in the right hand column. Then you'd have a long list of Amazon product links. By the time you finally found the company or product you wanted, you were five pages deep and wondering why it was so hard to find something that just a few years earlier would be in the first couple of results.

I just gave up using it - to me its become completely useless. Its a last ditch resource I use if I really need to find something.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#162

Post by gjm11 »

ColinHayhurst wrote: post #111
mcv wrote: post #62

The rant is not so much about laser printers, but about search engines and crappy SEO. I mean, it starts with a laser printer problem he has, but he doesn't blame his printer. He blames Google for not helping him find a better laser printer. And I checked: DuckDuckGo has a different top result, but the same problem: an article about top 10 laser printers that contains only ink jet printers. These are crap articles th…

Non-mainstream search results available here: https://www.mojeek.com/search?q=buy+laser+printer (self-disclosure: Mojeek team member)

I tried the top several results (searching for "large-format laser printer" as per Adam Savage's rant). Most of the results contained no large-format laser printers and no useful advice on finding or choosing them. The most promising was an e-commerce page almost all of which was other things but one of whose items was indeed advertised as a "large-format laser printer". Unfortunately it was actually a "computer to plate" machine, suitable if you want to print very large numbers of identical copies of something, prices starting at a mere $20k, almost certainly in no way suitable for Adam Savage's needs.

(An earlier version of this comment listed the actual results and commented separately on each. Unfortunately, while trying to refresh one of the result pages which hung without displaying any actual content I accidentally refreshed the HN "Add Comment" page, which threw away everything I'd written, so what you get is the summary above. Sorry.)

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#163

Post by SXX »

eql5 wrote: post #105
mcv wrote: post #62

The rant is not so much about laser printers, but about search engines and crappy SEO. I mean, it starts with a laser printer problem he has, but he doesn't blame his printer. He blames Google for not helping him find a better laser printer. And I checked: DuckDuckGo has a different top result, but the same problem: an article about top 10 laser printers that contains only ink jet printers. These are crap articles th…

Alternative search engine: https://yandex.ru/

You probably wanted to say:

https://yandex.com/

Except it doesn't help any single bit because the top result it's exactly the same "smallbiztrends.com" that was mentioned in a rant.

Russian Yandex is not any different than Google because their primary income is exactly the same: ads.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#165

Post by jeffbee »

BashiBazouk wrote: post #144

He is not looking for a large format laser printer. True large format would be called a plotter and will print 36"x48" sheets faster than your home laser printer will pump out letter sized sheets but are almost all B&W. The most common ones are made by Oce who was bought out by Canon. Medium format color laser printers are usually called a digital press and are commonly 12"x18" and duplex so a booklet can be cut down…

Yeah ... this rant is kinda more about the author than anything. He's mixing information by constructing a nonsense query. "Large format printing" is at least 18 inches wide, on a roll. He's looking for 11"x17", which is just "a printer". The Google results for the query `11x17 laser printer` are much better. At least for me all the carousel ads on the top, the top (and only) text ad, and the first organic results are all direct hits. There is some SEO junk further down, of course.

This is a garbage-in, garbage-out situation where both the web and the query are garbage and Google is doing what it can.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#166

Post by BashiBazouk »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #160
BashiBazouk wrote: post #144

He is not looking for a large format laser printer. True large format would be called a plotter and will print 36"x48" sheets faster than your home laser printer will pump out letter sized sheets but are almost all B&W. The most common ones are made by Oce who was bought out by Canon. Medium format color laser printers are usually called a digital press and are commonly 12"x18" and duplex so a booklet can be cut down…

As someone who has supported printers for decades, and has a friend who owns a print shop, almost nothing in this is true. > True large format would be called a plotter No, plotters are devices with pens. Layman may occasionally refer to a large format printer as a "plotter" because of its resemblance and it's faster to say, but nobody in the industry refers to them as plotters. > will print 36"x48" sheets faster tha…

Uh, no. Here is Canon's page on the machines in question: https://cpp.canon/products-technologies/large-format-plotter... See how they are called plotters?

They currently use Radiant Fusing technology: https://www.tavco.net/articles/bid/57020/see-the-advantages-...

"Toner does not bleed." I know but I was describing the needs not that toner bleeds. I have worked in printing plan sets and the old way for color was ink jet usually the HP 5000 series. The industry moved to the colorwave because the ink jet prints would bleed when wet.

Yes, the colorwave uses toner but I was told it was in a wax medium. The toner balls certainly felt like wax if you handled them...

Seems like you are being a tad pedantic and not entirely correct...

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#167

Post by vincnetas »

BashiBazouk wrote: post #166
KennyBlanken wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has supported printers for decades, and has a friend who owns a print shop, almost nothing in this is true. > True large format would be called a plotter No, plotters are devices with pens. Layman may occasionally refer to a large format printer as a "plotter" because of its resemblance and it's faster to say, but nobody in the industry refers to them as plotters. > will print 36"x48" sheets faster tha…

Uh, no. Here is Canon's page on the machines in question: https://cpp.canon/products-technologies/large-format-plotter... See how they are called plotters? They currently use Radiant Fusing technology: https://www.tavco.net/articles/bid/57020/see-the-advantages-... "Toner does not bleed." I know but I was describing the needs not that toner bleeds. I have worked in printing plan sets and the old way for color was ink…

Canon pages has it in the title "plotters AND printers".

Plotter is a pen moving over paper drawing continuous lines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotter

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#168

Post by jeffbee »

scoutt wrote: post #77

I think the problem is that there is no other way to provide feedback to Google other than clicking on links. I used to search on Google without an account. Then I created a phony account at work to see if there is an improvement in my searches (because it should be "learning", right?). And after some months... nope, or at least it's not noticeable. How does Google know what I like, what I search or the content I wan…

I believe one of the strongest signals they collect is when people return to the SERP after clicking through.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#169

Post by BashiBazouk »

vincnetas wrote: post #167
BashiBazouk wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, no. Here is Canon's page on the machines in question: https://cpp.canon/products-technologies/large-format-plotter... See how they are called plotters? They currently use Radiant Fusing technology: https://www.tavco.net/articles/bid/57020/see-the-advantages-... "Toner does not bleed." I know but I was describing the needs not that toner bleeds. I have worked in printing plan sets and the old way for color was ink…

Canon pages has it in the title "plotters AND printers". Plotter is a pen moving over paper drawing continuous lines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotter

Well, we called them plotters when printing plan sets...

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#170

Post by vincnetas »

BashiBazouk wrote: post #169
vincnetas wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canon pages has it in the title "plotters AND printers". Plotter is a pen moving over paper drawing continuous lines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotter

Well, we called them plotters when printing plan sets...

You could have called them "cars" or "planes" or whatever. This does not change the definition of word "plotter" ;)

edit: well, when i think about it, it does change definition of word if everyone starts calling plotters "cars", but there has to be a majority.

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