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How to hire an idiot

nukemanbill.blogspot.com

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Re: How to hire an idiot

#51

Post by sliverstorm »

jwallaceparker wrote: post #41

Wow a similar thing happened to a friend of mine in what he calls the "flying dragon" story. About 5 years ago my friend Bob (not his real name - real name is Andrew) started an entertainment business to do shows like Cirque du Soleil. He advertised on websites looking for acts. A man came in saying he was an agent that represented a flying dragon. Bob was incredulous. He asked to see the dragon. The agent told him t…

I suppose the first $1000 could be justified as a wild investment into curiosity and possibility, depending on whether or not his business could easily afford it. A little bit of that risk-taking every now and again can pay off, if you have luck or insight.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#52

Post by wisty »

3pt14159 wrote: post #40

Dude was a psychopath. I've been tricked by them before, cost me at least $20k. They lie. Straight to your face. They are often terrible at spelling, grammar, and just general "this document should look right" skills.

The word "psychopath" is getting waaaay overused. Not every bullshit artist is a psychopath. Just like not everyone who frowns a lot is clinically depressed, and not everyone who washes their hands before lunch is OCD.

He was probably incompetent, and didn't realize he was incompetent. People don't realize their limitations unless they are actually hit over the head with them. In a big company, people would just politely remove him from any situation where he in danger of screwing up - that's a large percent of what office politics is about (never letting managers feel stupid, even if it would be good for them).

He thought he knew sales, when he was really just good at a certain stage of sales (lead generation, in an industry where he had tonnes of experience). He fell flat, then tried to cover his screw-ups with bullshit.

Actually, a psychopath would have been better salesman. If you are talking to a salesman, and you think "this guy is a snake", he's probably a psychopath (or ASPD), and would make an effective salesman as long as you keep him at arms length. The first clue the author had was the guy's informal manner - he seemed way too balls-out confident. He lied, but they were the desperate lies of a guy trying to get (or keep) a job, not the lies of somebody who's really out to deceive.

Everyone lies, when they feel they have to. But they hate doing it, and usually try to fudge first. ("I'm qualified ... yep ... yeah, a degree ... um, actually it's a diploma ... well, look, I've done training, but most of it was industry based".) I think a psychopath is more likely to come up with a shamelessly complete story "Yes, I graduated from Harvard in 1987, and was in the top 5% of my class."

Re: How to hire an idiot

#53

Post by jarek »

lotharbot wrote: post #36
tptacek wrote: post #27

The moral of this story, which virtually every startup founder in the history of the universe has heard or told a variant of, is: CHECK. REFERENCES.

Further, "check references" needs to be deeper than just asking if the guy actually worked there. Ask about his role and responsibilities. Ask how he helped the company's bottom line. Ask real questions.

The problem is a lot of places will not make any further comment beyond confirming the employee worked there and perhaps the circumstances of their departure (resignation/laid off/fired). This is often for legal reasons.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#54

Post by [deleted] »

lotharbot wrote: post #36
tptacek wrote: post #27

The moral of this story, which virtually every startup founder in the history of the universe has heard or told a variant of, is: CHECK. REFERENCES.

Further, "check references" needs to be deeper than just asking if the guy actually worked there. Ask about his role and responsibilities. Ask how he helped the company's bottom line. Ask real questions.

[deleted]

Re: How to hire an idiot

#55

Post by m0nastic »

thwarted wrote: post #47
Bartlet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think an "education" section is a boilerplate resume item. If it wasn't there, I'd at least ask for details.

Interests and Hobbies seem to be boilerplate resume sections too, but no one with any significant experience should include them.

The "art" to resumes (as I'm now in the process of learning, after not looking at mine for ten years), is to figure out how to best portray yourself to the exact person(s) you're submitting it to.

That should inform what sections are appropriate. Sometimes having interests and hobbies is beneficial. I've seen numerous folks at startups talk about how they like seeing things like interests and hobbies, as they feel it paints a more complete picture of the person. At larger companies, they might at a minimum not care about that, or even actively not want to learn that information (for fear of being accused of having discriminatory hiring practices).

I have a few friends who include that they are an Eagle Scout on their resume (I don't put it on mine). In the overwhelming majority of cases, that's probably not going to be helpful to a prospective employer, but maybe it catches someone's eye and serves as a launching off point in an interview.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#56

Post by mrb »

philwelch wrote: post #50
rphlx wrote: post #49

Titles are bullshit. At some companies almost every salesperson is a VP of Sales, Western Antarctica (or whatever) -- it's a free way to make customers feel important.

Likewise, I've been cold-called or cold-emailed by many a "senior recruiter", but never a "junior recruiter" or even simply a "recruiter".

Job-title inflation is real. A decade or two ago, titles were more modest.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#57

Post by tptacek »

jarek wrote: post #53
lotharbot wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further, "check references" needs to be deeper than just asking if the guy actually worked there. Ask about his role and responsibilities. Ask how he helped the company's bottom line. Ask real questions.

The problem is a lot of places will not make any further comment beyond confirming the employee worked there and perhaps the circumstances of their departure (resignation/laid off/fired). This is often for legal reasons.

That's a bad reference. Sorry. I know that's not fun to hear, but it's true. Go out of your way to find people who will give you detailed, positive references.

Savvy employers will go out of their way, for instance by hitting up their network, to get "out of band" references for an employee. Those references are the ones that count the most. But when you give me a reference, and I call them, and all they'll say is "He worked here at XXX salary" --- that's a bad reference. Try to make sure that doesn't happen.

Re: How to hire an idiot

#59

Post by alanh »

jwallaceparker wrote: post #41

Wow a similar thing happened to a friend of mine in what he calls the "flying dragon" story. About 5 years ago my friend Bob (not his real name - real name is Andrew) started an entertainment business to do shows like Cirque du Soleil. He advertised on websites looking for acts. A man came in saying he was an agent that represented a flying dragon. Bob was incredulous. He asked to see the dragon. The agent told him t…

> Bob (not his real name - real name is Andrew)

Uh. What?

Re: How to hire an idiot

#60

Post by jarek »

tptacek wrote: post #57
jarek wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is a lot of places will not make any further comment beyond confirming the employee worked there and perhaps the circumstances of their departure (resignation/laid off/fired). This is often for legal reasons.

That's a bad reference. Sorry. I know that's not fun to hear, but it's true. Go out of your way to find people who will give you detailed, positive references. Savvy employers will go out of their way, for instance by hitting up their network, to get "out of band" references for an employee. Those references are the ones that count the most. But when you give me a reference, and I call them, and all they'll say is "H…

I don't know if a generic HR/manager reference would tell even the salary.

But now I'm genuinely curious: 1. how do you make sure references presented aren't extremely cherry-picked - does it just come out as obvious in the conversation? 2. what about more junior employees, who may not have much of a network for an employer to hit up?

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