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Kids are far behind in school

theatlantic.com

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Re: Kids are far behind in school

#21

Post by makeitdouble »

mattcwilson wrote: post #12
mort96 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand exactly what you're complaining about. Has anyone ignored the cost of closing schools? My impression has always been that everyone has known about the high cost, but, well, millions more dead isn't exactly a small cost either. I mean you may disagree with the choices which were made, but surely you have to recognize that it's a bit more complicated than what you're suggesting?

Would love to see the data you have showing that private schools that stayed open, or public schools that fought to stay open, contributed significantly to additional deaths, such that “millions more dead” would even be a fair comparison to the impact of schools choosing to go virtual instead.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8266060/

> Early evidence indicated that schools were low risk and children were unlikely to be very infectious, but it is becoming clear that children and youth can acquire and transmit COVID-19 in school settings and that transmission clusters and outbreaks can be large.

Re: Kids are far behind in school

#22

Post by mynameishere »

One thing I don't think I've ever seen in my life and never expect to see is a statement along the following lines: "Yeah, those cranks and 'conspiracy theorists' were right again." And this will stay true no matter how many times they are right.

The credit will always go to some academic who discovers the obvious after the damage is done.

Re: Kids are far behind in school

#23

Post by wellpast »

croon wrote: post #17
mattcwilson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love to see the data you have showing that private schools that stayed open, or public schools that fought to stay open, contributed significantly to additional deaths, such that “millions more dead” would even be a fair comparison to the impact of schools choosing to go virtual instead.

You're arguing for data examining something that has happened, while all decisions regarding a new virus act on data only available prior. Acting from an assumption that an infectious disease spreads more if children from every family gather daily in crowded classrooms doesn't seem like an unreasonable one. I would also love more data on this, preferably before the next pandemic.

This is a worrisome line of reasoning -- that you can't act to protect children until you have 'all the data' about this or that narrow threat vector.

Re: Kids are far behind in school

#24

Post by ryanklee »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #15
mort96 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand exactly what you're complaining about. Has anyone ignored the cost of closing schools? My impression has always been that everyone has known about the high cost, but, well, millions more dead isn't exactly a small cost either. I mean you may disagree with the choices which were made, but surely you have to recognize that it's a bit more complicated than what you're suggesting?

Yes, people have stated that 'the kids will be fine' quite consistently. Also, all costs other than deaths have been underplayed by people in favour of lockdowns. Memory-holing this is literally insane (where insane = disconnected from reality). That's not to say that what was done wasn't the best of a suite of bad options. But I saw nothing but fairly extreme downplaying of the consequences of lockdowns from people…

I think you should clarify your sample. I'm a liberal, was in favor of school closings early, my daughter went to her first year of kindergarten remote, and I was very aware of the tradeoffs. People like Emily Oster have been excellent at raising concerns.

Re: Kids are far behind in school

#25

Post by jl6 »

criddell wrote: post #16

Any guesses what the long term consequences might be? I have a hard time imagining anything more dire than the immediate consequences of social isolation during the pandemic. In other words, I think the kids that make it through are going to be okay.

Greater inequality, because wealthy parents can do more to compensate for schooling inadequacies than poor parents can.

Re: Kids are far behind in school

#26

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

croon wrote: post #17
mattcwilson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love to see the data you have showing that private schools that stayed open, or public schools that fought to stay open, contributed significantly to additional deaths, such that “millions more dead” would even be a fair comparison to the impact of schools choosing to go virtual instead.

You're arguing for data examining something that has happened, while all decisions regarding a new virus act on data only available prior. Acting from an assumption that an infectious disease spreads more if children from every family gather daily in crowded classrooms doesn't seem like an unreasonable one. I would also love more data on this, preferably before the next pandemic.

Pre-delta, Covid was massively disproportionately causing major complications and death for elderly and the chronically unhealthy.

We know very few kids in school have parents or guardians that are "elderly" and that not many have parents or guardians that are "chronically unhealthy", and we knew that Covid (pre-delta) had a very low complication and death rate on school-aged children (not too dissimilar from the flu).

It seems like the smarter thing to do would've been to let parents have their kids stay home if they wanted, and let teachers stay home if they had an excuse, and make efforts to make the environment as safe as possible.

Instead - it became entirely political. One side wanted to go to the extreme for safety. The other side wanted to pretend like it was a hoax.

Once Delta came around - all adults had access to vaccines. Once fully vaccinated - Covid again is not materially worse than the flu (unvaccinated). Again - at this point - the decision for students could've been left up to the parents, rather than just forcing everyone to stay home.

Re: Kids are far behind in school

#27

Post by croon »

wellpast wrote: post #23
croon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing for data examining something that has happened, while all decisions regarding a new virus act on data only available prior. Acting from an assumption that an infectious disease spreads more if children from every family gather daily in crowded classrooms doesn't seem like an unreasonable one. I would also love more data on this, preferably before the next pandemic.

This is a worrisome line of reasoning -- that you can't act to protect children until you have 'all the data' about this or that narrow threat vector.

It's a worrisome dilemma, in which you are forced to reason. There is no win scenario, only varying degrees of unknown loss states.

Re: Kids are far behind in school

#28

Post by fsdfdsfdsaafds »

croon wrote: post #17
mattcwilson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love to see the data you have showing that private schools that stayed open, or public schools that fought to stay open, contributed significantly to additional deaths, such that “millions more dead” would even be a fair comparison to the impact of schools choosing to go virtual instead.

You're arguing for data examining something that has happened, while all decisions regarding a new virus act on data only available prior. Acting from an assumption that an infectious disease spreads more if children from every family gather daily in crowded classrooms doesn't seem like an unreasonable one. I would also love more data on this, preferably before the next pandemic.

The irony being that many kids then spent a lot of time with their grandparents, so that their parents could continue to hold down their jobs while schools were closed.

Re: Kids are far behind in school

#29

Post by goldfeld »

criddell wrote: post #16

Any guesses what the long term consequences might be? I have a hard time imagining anything more dire than the immediate consequences of social isolation during the pandemic. In other words, I think the kids that make it through are going to be okay.

Oh you've no idea how catastrophic cascading effects over generations of parenting will be, but it's all fitting to a plan you know, the pandemic was just a means. The words religious and fascism come to mind, also Greg Egan's and others' sci-fi.

In other news Politicians Are Far, Far Advanced In Their Schemes.

Ed.: it may sound as if I'm calling out a major conspiracy and centralized but that's far from it, I'm just saying bad actors will increasingly have their way and bad intents will group themselves and plan out the short term ahead, step by step of public degradation. But that's been happening since the first fall and destruction of Babylon anyway.

Re: Kids are far behind in school

#30

Post by thejackgoode »

Wild speculation: interestingly, school's often underrated original function "to keep children off the streets" rephrased as "protecting against harmful influence of the world until your frontal lobe develops" means they might be reinvented to be digital limiting structures instead of physical limiting structures.
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