A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#11

Post by benoliver999 » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:05 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

I've lost count of the number of times I add 'reddit' to my google search queries.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#12

Post by x0x0 » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:05 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

> a niche product that any site actually talking about it

Say you make such a site, to review the 8 machines as mentioned by Adam. You're probably out $12-$15k just to get your hands on a decent set. Whereas the seo parasites that google refuses to stop enabling (largely because they get google paid; weird how that works, eh?) pay someone $10/page to spew content.

Yet another thing google and amazon have ruined by monetizing/incentivizing ultra-low quality leadgen masquerading as content.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#13

Post by sokoloff » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:06 AM UTC

Anything A3+ (13” x 19”) or smaller in the commercial printing industry is pretty universally considered “small format”. (Some places consider anything sheet-fed as small format and sheets come a lot bigger than A3+.)

It’s not surprising that searching using a specific industry term that’s different from your understanding of it would bring results for that larger-than-you-thought category of product.

Further, the smallbiztrends article that comes up first for me, that Adam claims “not a single one is an actual laser printer”, contains several printers that use the same dry toner, electrostatic process as laser printers and that most people outside of printing, if asked to name the printing tech, would call a “laser printer” (because they’ve never heard of an LED printer). The print quality issues that started his search were likely fuser-related not laser-related, meaning these colloquially incorrectly called laser printers would have been fine.

Search engines have problems, but this video isn’t hitting on them for me.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#14

Post by Lio » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:12 AM UTC

Would better filtering of procedurally generated pages and ecommerce sites help?

It feels like they drown out all the useful information when I'm searching for stuff. I usually resort to constraining searches to forum sites but that rejects a lot of blogs and other useful sources of information.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#15

Post by numpad0 » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:18 AM UTC

... large format laser printer, like A2 and up, in full color? Looks like there are few full-sized office photocopiers that can handle it as well as few models sold as drafting plotters, but the failed print he is holding in the video is an A4 sheet. Any lasers can do A4 just fine, some A3 as well.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#16

Post by keithnz » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:19 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

just trying to go directly to the main manufacturers websites... it's really hard tot find a large format laser printer. So it seems anything talking about large format printer is going to dominate, and any mention of "laser" on those pages is going to do well if you search for laser also. I get lots of hits on the large format page where "laser" is another menu option. I found some on xerox, surprised that didn't rank better.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#17

Post by chrischen » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:20 AM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #12

chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

> a niche product that any site actually talking about it Say you make such a site, to review the 8 machines as mentioned by Adam. You're probably out $12-$15k just to get your hands on a decent set. Whereas the seo parasites that google refuses to stop enabling (largely because they get google paid; weird how that works, eh?) pay someone $10/page to spew content. Yet another thing google and amazon have ruined by mo…

When Pagerank was invented the internet was a lot nicer and less spammy. I think its showing its age and maybe Pagerank just doesn't work for commercial content.

Even if you did not actually review the machines and simply mentioned a list of actual large format laser printers that was on topic, there is no way to rank that website on relevancy alone. You'd have to get people to link to you which you can do by 1) paying them or 2) being interesting enough to get organic links. For niche topics, 2) pretty much never happens because there's too much consolidation in websites now and people don't make their own home pages on their own domains anymore (something that was popular when pagerank was invented). To rank you'd need to get independent domains that are currently ranking as authorities on the topic to link to you, and since those are just other spammy websites with commercial interests they definitely won't do that (they're not going to help a competitor rank). This pretty much leaves 1) the only viable option, which means you're out $10-$15k just to buy links, and you're not going to do that unless you're also another spammer with profit seeking in mind to offset those costs.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#18

Post by aulin » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:20 AM UTC

benoliver999 wrote: post #11

chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

I've lost count of the number of times I add 'reddit' to my google search queries.

Sure but most of the time reddit is completely unable to provide a decent answer to any non banal search. And whenever I tried to directly ask something specific in a dedicated subreddit it always ends up in one of the following:

- I'm violating one of their moderator rules

- wrong subreddit try this one, you try that one and they recommend the first

- not enough upvotes for the question to be seen by anyone

- short attention span, if you don't get an answer in a couple of hours your question won't be seen by anyone

- hivemind bandwagoning, each subreddit has its set of default recommendations and everyone just repeats those forever

- US centric, especially frustrating for DIY searches where you can find only information specific to US common practices and regulations

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#19

Post by mattlondon » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:21 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

I find it curious that everyone trots out this idea that Reddit is a google killer etc.

Are people serious? Nearly every time I go to Reddit it is a toxic cesspool of hate and intolerance. In the occasional times I land in a subreddit that is not, it is either some totalitarian echo-chamber that is moderated to within an inch of it's life, or its just full of low-quality posts or automated bot spam.

Am I just unlucky? Or is that as good as it gets?

It is a shame as I loved Reddit in the old digg-era, but the quality nose-dived IMHO shortly after they introduced the subreddits and I never really go back any more if I can avoid it, mainly due to the community.

Re: A rant about search engine results for large format laser printers [video]

#20

Post by chrischen » Mon, May 23, 2022, 8:24 AM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #19

chrischen wrote: post #4

It seems like maybe both large format and laser printer is such a niche product that any site actually talking about it does not have enough SEO juice to overpower these spam sites despite relevancy. The sad thing is these articles seem to be just keyword stuffing because those printers mentioned on that website are all literally not laser printers despite the text saying they are... The problem is Google has no comp…

I find it curious that everyone trots out this idea that Reddit is a google killer etc. Are people serious? Nearly every time I go to Reddit it is a toxic cesspool of hate and intolerance. In the occasional times I land in a subreddit that is not, it is either some totalitarian echo-chamber that is moderated to within an inch of it's life, or its just full of low-quality posts or automated bot spam. Am I just unlucky…

I think Reddit is just a symptom. I don't think it's going to be a Google killer but the fact that people are looking to it to fix Google's problems is a sign of the problem at hand. They are abandoning something bad for something slightly less bad at solving the problem at hand, or just desperate for any method. And Reddit is definitely unintentionally doing this. The only reason Reddit isn't gamed (or maybe it is?) is because it's a new phenomenon so far.