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Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

austinvernon.site

601–610 of 672 posts

Re: Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations aren't some random worthless bullshit imposed by bureaucrats. They are the consequence of nuclear accidents. Dreaming of a world without regulations in the nuclear sector is just as stupid as a world without regulations in the airline industry. It just won't happen and pretending that there some kind of environmentalist plot behind the regulations won't make these regulations less necessary. There is no w…

> They are the consequence of nuclear accidents. These regulations are only cost effective if you have a value of human life at a billion dollars! Looks at the actual accident rate and how bad they were in the 70s when nuclear power was reasonably priced. It is very much not worth increasing the price of nuclear by 5x, can just keep the regulations as they were and invest that money in healthcare to save 1000x as man…

> These regulations are only cost effective if you have a value of human life at a billion dollars!

If other energy souces were regulated to the same degree of safety, I would expect nuclear to become the cheapest one again.

The main reason nuclear is expensive, is because people consider it to be worse if a person dies from radiation than from air polution, construction accidents, etc.

Re: Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

#602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the root cause here is that people are afraid to live near nuclear plants, and would get mad at their political representatives if they got built in their area. Making these limits more stringent makes it look like the politicians are forcing the plants to be safer, when really they are just blocking the plants from being built in their districts at all.

Would you like to live near one ?

Yes.

Re: Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

#604
post #213
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an expert here, but from a commentary piece from 2021: https://www.wsj.com/articles/nuclear-regulatory-council-nrc-... > In 1957 the internationally recommended limit for radiation exposure was about 15 times the natural background radiation that people absorb from rocks and cosmic rays. Without evidence of harm from exposures within the 1957 limits, the U.S. had by 1991 ratcheted its public limits down to less t…

Those regulations are designed with the knowledge that 100% compliance is impossible, so a safety buffer is designed in that ensures people are kept as safe as possible even within an imperfect regulatory compliance regime. Those limits are a target, and plants will likely exceed them slightly from time to time. That might not be caught for months, and keeping them at such low levels means the plants can have reasona…

When it comes to regulations, there are cultural differences in compliance. In places like Germany and Scandinavia, I'm pretty sure that such over-provisioning through regulation is overkill.

Anyway, a lot of old nuclear plants are still in use, and the total number of deaths is extremely low. We would have to lower safety standards quite a lot for the average safety of the new plants to be lower than the average of the pre-existing ones.

Re: Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if fossil and biofuel combustion plants had to insure themselves against the air pollution deaths they are known to directly cause. 4.2 million dead per year, year after year, according to the WHO [1]. And then there's climate change. It's wild that nuclear has to insure against things that may happen while 80% of our primary energy sources don't have to pay at all for the deaths and climate change they cause…

>Imagine if fossil and biofuel combustion plants had to insure themselves against the air pollution deaths they are known to directly cause. Such a good dream

If that happened overnight, energy prices would rise by a factor of 10-100 the next day.

Re: Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

#606
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Practically irrelevant unless you're Singapore or the like No. Very many Countries have very dense territories, and not much land naturally destinable to that kind of degradation.

And many do not. So? Considering that you want to build very large grids to smooth over your generation (my country is a part of a synchronous grid supplying almost half a billion people with electricity), it's very hard to argue with "but where will we put these things?", because in almost all cases you will find a place.

Norway is one of the most sparsely populated areas of Europe, still, land based windmills are extremely unpopular in rural areas.

And sea based ones in the Norwegian trench are not exactly cheap to build, due to rough seas and the depth of the water.

Re: Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

#607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your favorite or most closely watched Gen IV reactor? Figure you'd be one to ask.

I think we should be building the best LWRs right now to decarbonize immediately: ABWR, APR-1400, AP1000. My favorite decarbonize rapidly at scale idea is to build a shipyard-based nuclear reactor gigafactory and mass-produce floating PWRs. (This was actually almost done in the 1970s in Jacksonville Florida. They had a manufacturing license from the NRC, the world's largest gantry crane installed and, everything [1])…

Existing plants are barely competitive with the worst wind/solar from the LCOE graphs I've seen.

There's NO WAY a new LWR will ever beat LCOE of solar + wind + battery. And that is current day prices that doesn't count forthcoming sodium ion storage, LFP, and solar/wind cost improvements.

And it won't come online for a decade at best, with inevitable massive cost overruns.

LWR/PWR is all the crap with waste, fuel rod reprocessing, only using select isotopes of uranium, and while I'm not an expert at nuclear plant economics and accounting, have tons of unpriced externalities.

I wouldn't support any LWR/PWR unless it had LFTR or other reactors built with it that could "online process" the waste. And if we had those, why bother with the huge shield domes?

I'll read your blog posts though carefully, maybe I'll change my mind. But a cursory look seems like it is caged too much in the baggage of the last century of nuclear, which IMO are just dead ends that won't practically advance nuclear for the next century.

As in, we need a couple decades of wind/solar to wipe clean the current slate of nuclear, from politics to actual installations.

Edit: The old designs are interesting, but they are huge and expensive.

What I look forward to in next gen nuclear is basically all of these:

- breeds (so you can use thorium and reprocess old spent waste to usable stuff)

- meltdown proof (LFTR has the melt plug and cooling tank that will decriticalize the liquid)

- scalable to a bunch of shipping containers or smaller (LFTR allegedly fit in a closet for the demo)

- 99% fuel use (per the docs, no idea if this is true or not)

LFTR promises those, if it can deliver due to containment degradation issues, who knows.

When I look at the gee-whiz LFTR presentations, what sticks out to me is the closed fuel cycle/complete usage, promise of breeding old waste to non-waste or new fuel, and so many other things that fix the errors of nuclear history.

The other thing that is missing is computer simulation. We should be able to develop far more usable designs with modern simulation software. We know the military has a lot of fission simulation software. Materials degradation and so many other things can be calculated far better than was available in the 1960s.

The final thing holding back nuclear is that despite a lot of their idiocy, the fact of the matter is that the "greenies" were correct about nuclear energy. It was poorly designed from a long term perspective, played fast and loose with waste, and many other considerations which probably derived from its military inception. The military only cares about the end result, and giving a 100,000 people cancer from spillage/meltdowns, dealing with the full cycle of waste, or actually maintaining safe operation.

Tepco, a japanese company with all the supposed strict adherence to process, was operating the reactor incompetently. Fukushima wasn't an outlier, it was an indictment of the large reactor design over the long haul.

LFTR design addresses SO MUCH of that. Far better meltdown protection, and full fuel use so there's practically no waste (not by the old solid fuel rod standards).

So if the nuclear industry doesn't reformulate around things that LFTR can do, then it will just fail in the long run again.

Re: Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: How many people does coal burning kill a year?

Will putting $10^x in nuclear save more lives then putting $10^x into renewables,grid updates and batteries? You are proposing an intervention so it should be benchmarked against other interventions.

With today's battery prices, I would expect nuclear to be cheaper if x is high enough.

Maybe in 10 years, batteries will be cheap enough for renewables to be competitive without relying on fossil fuels or hydro plants during cloudy days with no wind.

Re: Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

#609
post #479

I think it has to do with a declining IQ score among Western nations. There are simply not enough employees with the education and competentency level required to safely operate these plants anymore.

This is probably a very real problem. Perhaps not biological IQ per se, but culturally Western populations have been dumbed down significantly over the past few decades. This is actually my only objection to nuclear power: it requires a certain level of technical savvy in the populace to supply the engineers and technicians, which sadly our lawyer-ruled society does not appreciate.

When von Neumann divided two numbers of 8 digits each in his head at age 8, biology was probably a factor.

Re: Why is the nuclear power industry stagnant?

#610
post #556
post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does not mean anything if they can't decide when they export it. That makes no sense. The market (demand & supply) decides. The static model is long past. > Waht matters though, is that most of the time their electricity has an awful carbon footprint w.r.t what the wealthiest country in Europe should afford. Germany isn't the wealthiest country in Europe. That it has more inhabitants than, for example Norway, do…

> That makes no sense. The market (demand & supply) decides. The static model is long past. Indeed, the supply. And what is the very charateristic of Germany's renewable supply? That they do not have any inluence of it. They have to sell when the weather is sunny and windy, and have to buy or burn coal otherwise. > does not make the average German richer. That does not really matter, as the average German does not pa…

> And what is the very charateristic of Germany's renewable supply? That they do not have any inluence of it.

There are more renewable energy sources than wind and sun. Buying electricity is also a good option. Retrieving stored electricity is another.

> That does not really matter, as the average German does not pay for a nuke plant; the federal goverment does.

The federal government does not pay for nuclear power plants.

> What really matters is that we move fast to low-carbon energy; renewable is the cherry on the cake.

Renewable is the only viable option.

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