Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons • Hacker News Board

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#461

Post by ndsipa_pomu » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

pengaru wrote: post #440

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The full-face helmets provide much better protection, but they have the trade-offs of being more uncomfortable and hotter. I'm not convinced that cycling is especially dangerous and my experience is that I've inevitably put my hands out when falling, so I think that gloves should be the first part of PPE recommended for cyclists. Luckily, I've never hit my helmet/head when coming off so I've found that a bike helmet…

> then why are helmets not recommended for car passengers, people showering, changing a lightbulb etc Strawman much? car passengers: airbags and seatbelts are in direct conflict with and superior to helmets. people showering and changing lightbulbs are not traveling at speeds exceeding a walking pace in an orientation predisposing them for a head/facial impact for hours at a time. The full-face helmet I wear is heavi…

People do still receive head injuries from car collisions even with airbags and seatbelts, so it's reasonable to think that wearing a car helmet would provide additional head protection - it's certainly common in motorsport.

I'm trying to compare activities that have a significant risk of head injuries (and deaths) with cycling and yet PPE is very rarely mentioned for them.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#462

Post by ndsipa_pomu » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

ComputerGuru wrote: post #393

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pictures that I've seen of the various "saved my life" destroyed helmets have the polystyrene split apart - it's usually quite easy to split polystyrene if the force is applied the right (wrong) way. I don't like the concept of requiring PPE for a relatively safe activity as cycling as it makes cycling seem like a far more risky activity than it is and there's also the problem of "helmet hair" which can dissuade…

Cycling in a vacuum is safe-ish and not a particularly risky affair. Cycling on a shared road with automobiles going eight times your speed and weighing some 250 times your bipedal vehicle’s weight is not so safe.

I'd recommend reducing your tyre pressure and definitely remember some oxygen.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#463

Post by bluejekyll » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

stevejb wrote: post #441

bluejekyll wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cycling is only risky due to the shared infrastructure with cars. The thing that raises the risk is cars. We should all be demanding that our streets are made safe for all users. We already have sidewalks in many places for this reason, we just need to extend similar safe infrastructure to bicycles and other road users too. Just throwing your hands up and not asking for change is a sure way to not improve things.

I used to live next to a popular bike trail, that had 0 sharing with cars. Not a road within 50 meters. There were plenty of injuries. Bike vs bike, bike vs pedestrian, bike vs stationary object, distracted cyclist injures themselves. Etc. If you're going 30 km/hr in thin lycra, you can certainly injure yourself with no help from anyone or anything else.

This is a common issue in this discussion. People using bikes for sport is a different category for cyclist than an urban and/or casual rider.

When cycling for sport you should always wear a helmet.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#464

Post by i_am_jl » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #458

tboughen wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“cyclists were given 8.5cm (3.3 inches) more clearance by cars if they were not wearing helmets.” https://helmets.org/walkerstudy.htm

You know that the article you posted was about refuting this claim: "After re-analysis of Walker's data, helmet wearing is not associated with close motor vehicle passing"

Confirmation bias machine strikes again.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#465

Post by yucky » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

rollcat wrote: post #359

spankalee wrote: post #272

I once saw an accident where a cyclist going straight through an intersection was hit by an oncoming truck turning left that was impatient, didn't see the cyclist and gunned it between cars. The cyclist was launched headfirst into the bumper of a car stopped at the light and her helmet loudly cracked in two. She was still hurt, but I'm sure she would have died without that helmet. If some riders choose to not wear a…

Background: I do downhill longboarding as a hobby. > If some riders choose to not wear a helmet [...] ...we take their board from them, until they show up with one. This sport is almost completely unregulated (outside of official events), but somehow the community has developed an incredibly strong culture of keeping both yourself and the others around you safe. I guess something about being a niche sport, perhaps a…

>...we take their board from them, until they show up with one.

I'm confused what this means. So you steal their board? Or are they borrowing/using someone else's board and they forfeit the right to use it?

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#466

Post by rollcat » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

backtoyoujim wrote: post #428

rollcat wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Background: I do downhill longboarding as a hobby. > If some riders choose to not wear a helmet [...] ...we take their board from them, until they show up with one. This sport is almost completely unregulated (outside of official events), but somehow the community has developed an incredibly strong culture of keeping both yourself and the others around you safe. I guess something about being a niche sport, perhaps a…

Freedom in an unregulated space requires less freedom for the individual, I suppose.

The safety gear __is__ the freedom. You have minor crashes, bails, small accidents every day, sometimes almost every run. It's normal, it's a part of the sport: you're pushing to improve yourself, you're racing other people competitively. The helmet is an "extra life", but the sliding gloves (think velcro hockey pucks) are about as essential as the wheels themselves; you wear them even in "no paws down" (standup slides only) races, they're what's keeping your palms from becoming meat crayons.

The safety gear allows you to just walk away from some otherwise life-ending accidents like nothing happened.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#467

Post by stjohnswarts » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

If they can tell if riders are being unsafe then the rest of it is drivel and helmets should be worn. Train them, monitor them, and helmet them. Whoever set this policy is an idiot. I can see helmets being optional, but banning them is some big brain stats guy who can't look at anything but stats.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#468

Post by vkou » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #367

323 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the polystyrene which cracks, but the plastic shell holding it in place. The separation will happen after the compression force is removed, because the compression will keep the split parts close together. Meaning that the helmet falls apart after it's done the job. Also, there are various degrees of helmets, from a simple polystyrene to a mountain bike one to a motorcycle helmet. You can always go to the ne…

The pictures that I've seen of the various "saved my life" destroyed helmets have the polystyrene split apart - it's usually quite easy to split polystyrene if the force is applied the right (wrong) way. I don't like the concept of requiring PPE for a relatively safe activity as cycling as it makes cycling seem like a far more risky activity than it is and there's also the problem of "helmet hair" which can dissuade…

Cycling on roadways is not a relatively safe activity.

I don't know a single cyclist commuter that has not been involved in a car crash - and I'm in my early 30s.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#469

Post by dwpdwpdwpdwpdwp » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

dougmsmith wrote: post #445

eloff wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a near miss like this that really scared me in Vancouver. I was going straight, and the light went yellow just before I got to the intersection. Thinking like a car, I speed up to clear the intersection before the red light. An oncoming car in the left lane also sped up to make a left turn. I don't remember if he indicated, certainly I didn't see it. We both slammed on the brakes and narrowly missed each other.…

Quoted post unavailable.

>And now you know why riding with body armor is pointless.

I can confidently say I am among the elite in terms of urban riding competency, having logged at least 15,000 miles riding around Los Angeles.

I’ve crashed three times. Two of those were were the result of a combination of bad luck and me taking unnecessary risks. The other one was entirely unavoidable, and totally the result of a negligent driver. In that case I slammed my head hard on the pavement, broke my helmet, and managed to ride away shaken but not seriously injured.

The point is I have skills too, I’ve avoided countless accidents by employing them. I also wear a helmet to further reduce that risk.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#470

Post by progman32 » Sun, May 22, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

yucky wrote: post #465

rollcat wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Background: I do downhill longboarding as a hobby. > If some riders choose to not wear a helmet [...] ...we take their board from them, until they show up with one. This sport is almost completely unregulated (outside of official events), but somehow the community has developed an incredibly strong culture of keeping both yourself and the others around you safe. I guess something about being a niche sport, perhaps a…

>...we take their board from them, until they show up with one. I'm confused what this means. So you steal their board? Or are they borrowing/using someone else's board and they forfeit the right to use it?

Presumably, like stealing someone's car keys if they're trying to drive drunk, or taking someone's stick on the city streets if you're one of Louis Rossman's crew in NYC and the perp is going around smashing stuff ;)