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How This Ends

avc.com

221–230 of 698 posts

Re: How This Ends

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds a bit like doom and gloom. While I don't disagree, it is important to look at AMZN after the dot com bubble burst. Traders fled, but people who believed in the company did very well.

> Traders fled, but people who believed in the company did very well. Yep, I did well, and I loved to show people AMZN stock price graph, like “can you identify the dot-com crash here?”. But I believed in the company then . Big question is: should I believe in the AMZN now ? Personally, I’ve stopped using Amazon when they started to support censorship - I’ve grown up in a totalitarian country and things likes censors…

Good questions. Can they maintain the high performance culture without large stock compensation?

The best option I see following a similar path is TSLA. They currently have 2% of us auto sales. The energy business is tiny, AI/FSD is controversial, but if it works it will be worth a lot.

Re: How This Ends

#222
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who bought houses will be fine, since they secured low interest loans, and will hesitate to sell because won't get good interest on next loan. This will cause low supply -> high prices -> people who didn't buy are very screwed: they will face high prices together with high interest.

Low interest rate doesn't mean low monthly payment

It means monthly payments are lower than if person would sell and buy with higher interest. It is very strong incentive to not sell.

Re: How This Ends

#223

> I would be planning to ride this thing out for at least eighteen months or more. I'm betting more like three to five years. I was talking to a friend (another old guy, like me, but really rich, unlike me). We've both been through at least two recessions (big, nasty ones, with teeth and claws). We realized that there's an entire generation of folks; many running companies, that have never seen a real bear market. It…

>We realized that there's an entire generation of folks; many running companies, that have never seen a real bear market.

This is true for every recession, so maybe rethink your friends logic.

Re: How This Ends

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing fingers isn't going to help with anything, whether its your parents or your next door neighbor. At some point we just need to take ownership and work towards a better future, but accountability seems to be pretty rare these days(whether its your issue or not).

“Don’t point fingers at us boomers!” One sentence later: “None of you young folks have accountability.”

Yeah, I said "we", but I guess you'll twist it in whichever way you like /shrug

Also: thanks for reinforcing my point hehe, appreciate that :)

Re: How This Ends

#225
> In the early 80s, the G7 economies tightened the money supply, raising interest rates dramatically, in an effort to bring inflation under control. You can see the effect in this image:

It's fascinating how much attention the Federal Reserve gets when it comes to the business cycle. It's not clear what's being referenced above, but the reference to the Fed funds rate chart below suggests it's "the Fed" and company.

It's possible, though, that the Fed is irrelevant.

Have a look at a different interest rate chart: the 30-year Treasury yield (10-year chart looks similar). This is the risk-free price of money that comes due in 30 years [zoom out by clicking "max"]. Given the three-decade duration, this is about as close as one can get to answering the question: what is the economy likely to look like if the Fed didn't matter? This market is giving a peek into the relative level of growth and inflation expectation in the distant future.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DGS30

The chart peaks around 1981 and from there it's a fully-loaded train barreling down the hill without a brake and only hitting the occasional bump along the way. Through recession (grey bands) and recoveries (after the grey bands), through manias (1999-2000, 2006-2007, 2020-?) this long-term rate sets lower highs and lower lows, year after year.

During all this time, the Fed is doing its thing, pumping up the idea that it controls "the money supply" and it alone can fight inflation or get the economy out of recession.

That is, until this year. Depending on how you look at it, the top of the long-term trend line may have been broken this year, or just barely touched. In other words, this chart sits at a possible inflection point marking either the beginning of a new regeime (much higher interest rates) or reversion to the status quo (much lower and likely negative interest rates).

The point of all of this is that if the Fed were indeed the center of the financial universe, is this the kind of chart you'd expect to see? What factor(s) in the real economy are capable of producing a chart like that, independent of the Fed? Finally, what happens when/if this chart crosses the x-axis, or breaks decisively above trend?

Re: How This Ends

#226
post #213
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is a risk free alternative to stocks How is holding a bond risk free? It is a promise to give you a certain amount of money at a certain time in the future. The value of that money depends on how scarce it is. The government constantly raises and lowers that scarcity at will. Sometimes the government decides to double the supply in just a few years: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE So it seems highly…

You get a guaranteed return depending on how long you lock up your cash. You may or may not beat inflation, but it still protects you on some level.

A guaranteed return of dollars. What those dollars are worth is not guaranteed.

Imagine Tesla would hand out a certain type of share that after 10 years turns into 2 shares. Nobody would call that a risk free return. Because you don't know how much dollars you will get for those two shares.

The same with dollars. You don't know how much Tesla shares you will get for those dollars.

Re: How This Ends

#227
post #54
post #24

I'm going to explain what has happened so far. What happens next entirely depends on how inflation continues and the feds reaction. 1. We had zero percent interest rates. This causes the value of assets with cash flows out into the future (think speculative tech, Tesla) to accelerate. 2. We had massive herding in megacap tech. These valuations are high in part because for a decade you would not have beat the index wi…

1. Zero Percent interest rates doesn't necessarily cause a bubble. It's the excess liquidity in the market that causes the bubble (too many financial assets chasing real assets).

Zero percent interest rates cause a bubble because valuations have to increase to the point where their forward-looking returns are a risk premium above bonds. When rates are zero for a long time, that means valuations go very very high. When rates come back up, valuations drop. Speculation can add further overshoot in both directions.

Re: How This Ends

#228
post #24

I'm going to explain what has happened so far. What happens next entirely depends on how inflation continues and the feds reaction. 1. We had zero percent interest rates. This causes the value of assets with cash flows out into the future (think speculative tech, Tesla) to accelerate. 2. We had massive herding in megacap tech. These valuations are high in part because for a decade you would not have beat the index wi…

So for non-finance-experts, what should we be doing with our money? Investing in what? Keeping in the bank? It sounds from your comment like there is _nothing_ that won't be devalued, even gold. Is real estate worthwhile? (Note: I am in the EU not US.)

Same as always, keep investing in a well-diversified spread. The stock market as a whole will always bounce back. That or society collapses and your numbers in a computer are worthless anyway.

This is the first big downturn I've been prepared to invest in, so personally I'm going to buy more than usual. I see it as stocks being on sale.

Re: How This Ends

#229
post #191
post #24

I'm going to explain what has happened so far. What happens next entirely depends on how inflation continues and the feds reaction. 1. We had zero percent interest rates. This causes the value of assets with cash flows out into the future (think speculative tech, Tesla) to accelerate. 2. We had massive herding in megacap tech. These valuations are high in part because for a decade you would not have beat the index wi…

there is a risk free alternative to stocks How is holding a bond risk free? It is a promise to give you a certain amount of money at a certain time in the future. The value of that money depends on how scarce it is. The government constantly raises and lowers that scarcity at will. Sometimes the government decides to double the supply in just a few years: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE So it seems highly…

Risk in this context means uncertainty - since the government can print money it is always able to pay its debts. You might not get a great return on your investment, but the government always has the capability to pay you back. There’s little reward with no risk.

Re: How This Ends

#230
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So for non-finance-experts, what should we be doing with our money? Investing in what? Keeping in the bank? It sounds from your comment like there is _nothing_ that won't be devalued, even gold. Is real estate worthwhile? (Note: I am in the EU not US.)

If you think that there is some major economic turmoil ahead with dropping asset values across the board (and I personally this is fairly likely), the general advice is to aim for a positive alpha. That is, if you are moderately well off or better, invest to "go down less than your neighbors". Assets across the board lose value, but if at the end of the fall you preserved a higher fraction of your money to invest tha…

The general advice is always to aim for a positive alpha. No investor aims for a negative alpha, regardless of the economic climate.
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