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Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

bikebiz.com

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Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#171

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

whimsicalism wrote: post #133
yellowapple wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe there are some cases where safety protections make people act dumber And I don't believe that to be a justification for removing those safety protections entirely. This ain't some data science problem to be solved; this is ethics and morality, and there is precisely nothing ethical or moral about demanding that your employees make themselves less safe and then having the gall to pretend that this somehow…

You believe that if the evidence indicates more people would die with the helmets, it would still be morally verboten even though it would be a statistical certainty your omission of action is basically causing people's deaths when we are talking about large numbers of people? Crazy. I suspect you are actually reasoning from your thought that people are more likely to die without helmets and ignoring the premise of t…

if even 1 incident occurs which was unavoidable by an unhelmeted cyclist which harms them more than they would have been harmed wearing a helmet, then the policy is unconscionable

claiming you're removing safety equipment to reduce risky behavior is the tail wagging the dog. there are other ways to reduce risky behavior which do not have such tragic consequences as side effects to them.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#172

Post by breakfastduck »

stefan_ wrote: post #95
y7 wrote: post #63

Maybe relevant: the Netherlands is probably the country with the highest use of bicycles for transport, yet no one, except for cyclists on racing bikes/MTBs or foreign tourists, ever wears a bike helmet. This is because they're only marginally effective at preventing injury, and the disadvantage of reduced cycling use if helmets are mandated results in far worse public health outcomes. See also https://dutchreview.co…

Hey now, don't bring reason here. We reject effective technology to stop speeding, phone use, distracted driving and regulations to make cars and trucks have no more than necessary power, weight and effective sightlines but since cyclists wear a styrofoam hat they are safe. Except those pedestrians are dying at an accelerated rate, I think they should get a helmet too. The response here are hilarious, like "they also…

It's not reasonable and it's not relevant to point that lack of helmet use out.

1. The road infra is entirely structured around making it safer for cyclists in NE

2. They don't BAN the use of helmets. That study is NOT a justification to BAN them.

3. No one is suggesting that they be mandated either.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#173

Post by GuB-42 »

moonbug wrote: post #88
polote wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I was a staff rider, I'd be putting that helmet on and telling Pedal Me to eat an OSHA-sized bag of dicks if they have a problem with it. And then they would fire you and you will have to find a company that allow helmets and everyone will be happy

ah, but you see, they don't actually employ you

In the case of pedal.me, they do.

> At pedal me, we believe in looking after our people properly. That’s why our team are employees, not contractors.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#174

Post by alpaca128 »

scotty79 wrote: post #96
perlgeek wrote: post #5

This assumes that the risk primarily originates from the riders, not from other traffic participants. Is there any data to substantiate this?

Other participants take less risk with riders not wearing helmets. There's data on this. For example they leave more room between the bicycle and a car when they are passing.

There's an easy fix for that; drive in the middle of the lane. At least where I live it's impossible to legally overtake a cyclist without switching lanes so for anyone driving correctly it doesn't make a difference anyway. Of course that's not a hard rule for every situation, but after a couple situations that almost killed me I just try to reduce risks. Car drivers hate us either way.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#175

Post by Fiahil »

scotty79 wrote: post #94
wl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Riding on roads isn't like mountain biking where you mostly control the amount of risk you take on. Riding on roads puts you at the mercy of other people's choices. I feel the need to wear a helmet anytime I'm riding on a road for that reason.

The point is the risk on the road is smaller when you don't wear a helmet because drivers take less risk with you. Even better if you are a woman in summer dress. Then the drivers give you way more space and are super careful around you. It was researched.

> It was researched.

It doesn’t mean the research wasn’t bullshit nor correctly understood what happened there.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#176

Post by anonymousab »

mrpopo wrote: post #122
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of infrastructure safety will help if you take a tumble and hit your head - a helmet would totally help. Even experienced cyclists take the occasional fall :)

Which they mentioned in the article: “A major cause of head injuries is going over the handlebars, which is not possible with a 3 metre long bike. Helmets protect against falls. They don't protect against cars.

When a biker gets in a car accident, falling is generally going to be a part of that process.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#177

Post by sumeno »

tsimionescu wrote: post #123
scotty79 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that you'll have less traumatic brain injuries without helmets than with helmets because you'll have less accidents over all and less severe ones. If a cyclist have a helmet he and everyone around him behaves dumber. This was researched.

> If a cyclist have a helmet he and everyone around him behaves dumber. This was researched. This seems like an extraordinary claim, given that safety systems in all other places have no such effects (or at least, not as significant). I would very much like to see this research, and even then I would be very wary of it. Either way, it's irrelevant given the levels of training that they are claiming they demand of the…

> This seems like an extraordinary claim, given that safety systems in all other places have no such effects (or at least, not as significant).

There are examples where safety systems cause increased risk.

Football helmets are one. The helmet doesn't protect very well against concussions and the presence of the helmet makes it more likely for players to use their heads as a weapon.

I don't know about this bike helmet example since the actual data isn't available, but there are definitely times when counterintuitively having a safety feature is riskier.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#179

Post by samatman »

ekianjo wrote: post #129
yellowapple wrote: post #52

I'm sorry, and pardonner mou Français, but what in the actual fuck? Should delivery drivers not wear seatbelts because they might not be as afriad that they'll fly through the windshield? Should linemen not wear harnesses because they might be more confident working on power lines? Should warehouse workers not wear hi-vis jackets because they might be more confident working around forklifts? Should construction worke…

> I'm sorry, and pardonner mou Français, but what in the actual fuck? Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not? It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning. Wearing a helmet can itself become a leading factor to cause an incident, and it's clearly what they are hinting at in the linked article: that data seems to indicate that riders wearing helmets may be…

I know this will astonish you, but when I ride a bike, I don't always put a helmet on.

Whether I do or not has a lot to do with how likely it is that I might get in an accident. Wild right? Why would I opt for more safety gear in a more dangerous situation.

Re: Pedal Me bans staff riders from wearing helmets for safety reasons

#180

Post by woeirua »

ekianjo wrote: post #129
yellowapple wrote: post #52

I'm sorry, and pardonner mou Français, but what in the actual fuck? Should delivery drivers not wear seatbelts because they might not be as afriad that they'll fly through the windshield? Should linemen not wear harnesses because they might be more confident working on power lines? Should warehouse workers not wear hi-vis jackets because they might be more confident working around forklifts? Should construction worke…

> I'm sorry, and pardonner mou Français, but what in the actual fuck? Do you wear a helmet when you drive inside your car? If not, why not? It might make you much safer in case of a crash, according to your reasoning. Wearing a helmet can itself become a leading factor to cause an incident, and it's clearly what they are hinting at in the linked article: that data seems to indicate that riders wearing helmets may be…

Here’s the contrarian viewpoint just for the sake of being a contrarian, in spite of decades of evidence that helmets improve cyclist safety.
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