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Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

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Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#141

Post by 908B64B197 »

TMWNN wrote: post #43
frontman1988 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. The quality of students is also just above mediocre given the smaller talent pool of that exists in Canada.

>What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. Indeed. Canada and California have about the same population. One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. But Canada does not have a Stanford, Caltech, CalArts, UCSF, USC, UCSD, etc., etc. Waterloo? SJSU, maybe, and California has a dozen other colleges at about that lev…

> One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA.

Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#142

Post by 908B64B197 »

esjeon wrote: post #107
frontman1988 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. The quality of students is also just above mediocre given the smaller talent pool of that exists in Canada.

Full disclosure: I'm from Waterloo. University of Waterloo is a relatively young university - established in 1959 - so it may look unattractive compared to old big name universities, especially on the usual metrics used for ranking universities. However, UWaterloo positioned itself into a very peculiar position by offering the most extensive undergraduate co-op program. Co-op students graduates with up to 2 years of…

> so it may look unattractive compared to old big name universities, especially on the usual metrics used for ranking universities.

Mostly research output and quality.

> it's currently one of the most popular universities in SV and Big Tech

How much of that is due to the sheer size of the undergraduate class? There are more undergrads at Waterloo than at MIT, Stanford, CMU, Caltech, Harvard, Princeton and Yale... Combined!

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#143

Post by TMWNN »

908B64B197 wrote: post #141
TMWNN wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's so great about Waterloo? It is nowhere near Standard/Caltech/MIT in competition. Indeed. Canada and California have about the same population. One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. But Canada does not have a Stanford, Caltech, CalArts, UCSF, USC, UCSD, etc., etc. Waterloo? SJSU, maybe, and California has a dozen other colleges at about that lev…

> One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue.

>> One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA.

>Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue.

True. I was thinking of the quality excluding other factors (and specifically noted that the comparison was still generous to Toronto/McGill). But I agree that anyone accepted to both Berkeley and Toronto/McGill is going to choose California over Canada, with the following exceptions:

* Toronto/Montreal has some specific personal appeal

* The Canadian schools' tuition works out to be substantially less than Berkeley. I know that McGill, in particular, has historically been a popular choice for eastern US students whose families make too much for financial aid from US schools, got turned down from their first choices (typically an Ivy), and choose McGill for both the relatively low cost even for out-of-country students and being able to say that they are going to another country for college (even if it's just across the Canadian border, quite possibly closer to home than an American alternative).

But you did say to exclude cost and visas as a factor. Certainly, no foreign student accepted to both will ever choose Canada (except, say, a francophone who chooses McGill for that reason); Berkeley has a worldwide brand name that Toronto and McGill do not.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#144

Post by 908B64B197 »

TMWNN wrote: post #143
908B64B197 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue.

>> One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. >Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue. True. I was thinking of the quality excluding other factors (and specifically noted that the comparison was still generous to Toronto/McGill). But I agree that anyone accepted to both Berkeley and…

> except, say, a francophone who chooses McGill for that reason

The French schools actually have an interesting dynamic. Having worked with a few French Canadians here in the Bay they pretty much all told me they never considered going to an American school (or more generally working for an American company) due to their perceived language gap. It was later they figured out that if the whole room understands you then maybe you don’t have a language gap.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#145

Post by esjeon »

908B64B197 wrote: post #142
esjeon wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full disclosure: I'm from Waterloo. University of Waterloo is a relatively young university - established in 1959 - so it may look unattractive compared to old big name universities, especially on the usual metrics used for ranking universities. However, UWaterloo positioned itself into a very peculiar position by offering the most extensive undergraduate co-op program. Co-op students graduates with up to 2 years of…

> so it may look unattractive compared to old big name universities, especially on the usual metrics used for ranking universities. Mostly research output and quality. > it's currently one of the most popular universities in SV and Big Tech How much of that is due to the sheer size of the undergraduate class? There are more undergrads at Waterloo than at MIT, Stanford, CMU, Caltech, Harvard, Princeton and Yale... Com…

> How much of that is due to the sheer size of the undergraduate class?

The quantity still needs to be backed by the quality. Companies don't roll the dice when hiring people. They filter and interview. The numbers certainly prove that Waterloo draws many talents who can survive that process.

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#146

Post by TMWNN »

908B64B197 wrote: post #144
TMWNN wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> One might plausibly, if generously, posit Toronto and McGill as rough equivalents to Berkeley and UCLA. >Would someone really reject Berkley for one of these schools? Assuming tuition and securing a visa isn't an issue. True. I was thinking of the quality excluding other factors (and specifically noted that the comparison was still generous to Toronto/McGill). But I agree that anyone accepted to both Berkeley and…

> except, say, a francophone who chooses McGill for that reason The French schools actually have an interesting dynamic. Having worked with a few French Canadians here in the Bay they pretty much all told me they never considered going to an American school (or more generally working for an American company) due to their perceived language gap. It was later they figured out that if the whole room understands you then…

>The French schools actually have an interesting dynamic. Having worked with a few French Canadians here in the Bay they pretty much all told me they never considered going to an American school (or more generally working for an American company) due to their perceived language gap.

Yes, I think Polytechnique Montréal is a popular choice for French looking to study STEM in North America. (Despite my mentioning McGill earlier, it wouldn't necessarily be the first choice for Francophones because it's an English university in the English part of Montreal.)

Re: Microsoft Opens New HQ in Toronto

#147

Post by 908B64B197 »

esjeon wrote: post #145
908B64B197 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so it may look unattractive compared to old big name universities, especially on the usual metrics used for ranking universities. Mostly research output and quality. > it's currently one of the most popular universities in SV and Big Tech How much of that is due to the sheer size of the undergraduate class? There are more undergrads at Waterloo than at MIT, Stanford, CMU, Caltech, Harvard, Princeton and Yale... Com…

> How much of that is due to the sheer size of the undergraduate class? The quantity still needs to be backed by the quality. Companies don't roll the dice when hiring people. They filter and interview. The numbers certainly prove that Waterloo draws many talents who can survive that process.

> The numbers certainly prove that Waterloo draws many talents who can survive that process.

Not really. In a resume pile you should get almost 8x more applicants from Waterloo than MIT. You could flunk 7 out of 8 candidates and still claim the university is “as popular as MIT” in SV.

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