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Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

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Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#21
This is starting to look like a generic problem for companies which are valued on the basis of future growth, but may have in fact reached their mature size. Suddenly they have to be priced as ongoing operating companies, which is based on revenue and profits right now. Facebook. Uber. Netflix. Tesla. They all do something that people will pay for, but they aren't going to get a lot bigger.

Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#22

I did not know they were thinking about taking on ads. That's got to be a circling of the drain.

If I remember correctly, a feature of cable TV way back when was ... no ads. Pesky things. I bet Gutenberg felt the same.

And ads are what killed it too, once a competing technology (finally) came out. From what I understand the US shows way to many adds compared to Europe, it's nearly half of the show time. If TV/cable execs weren't so greedy, they might still be alive. It seems like US companies tend to kill the golden goose.

Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#23
post #2

The quoted "competing exec" is 100% wrong when he says Netflix is making a mistake ending shows after three seasons. Shows need to be pitched and run for three seasons max, period. Everyone has a life other than the show that's "hot" for the moment, from cast to writers to the source of money - the viewers. Shows that get dragged out inevitably suck. And yeah, go to weekly releases.

I agree, milking shows usually ruins them. On the other hand, if they are great shows that last a long time you can gain a loyal audience. This seems to be how HBO has found so much success- Sopranos (never lost quality, even by the end), Curb, the Wire, etc. Although, GOT got milked out terribly. I think the hard part is just deciding which shows to drag on- and being based on a story that already has an ending helps guard against plot degradation.

Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#24
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's a problem. Watching a whole season makes you more invested in the show, so you're pissed off when it gets cancelled. I also agree with OP that encouraging binge watching is not good. Netflix pumped out more content than any cable TV package I've ever had in the past, but by allowing binge-watching people binge and then get bored and say Netflix has no content. If they spread out these shows it would be hea…

> by allowing binge-watching people binge and then get bored and say Netflix has no content. People don't say that Netflix has "no content" because they binge watch. People say that because Netflix does genuinely have dramatically less content than it did 8-10 years ago, because of the proliferation of competing streaming services. If Netflix still had access to all the content it has hosted over the years, people wo…

Yes and no, a lot of people say it has no contents because some stuff was pulled, but they still have a sh*load of content compared to what you got before, but people have already binged on all of it, so there's nothing new to look forward to most of the time.

Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#25
post #20

The reason for Netflix lost subscribers in 2022 is the same as the reason Netflix experienced a growth spurt in 2020: work from home. When people work from home, on average they gain an extra hour or more per day, because they don't have to commute. (Not to mention, the boss can't walk up behind you and catch you enjoying a movie!) Now that work from home is over, they no longer need the Netflix subscription.

While WFH probably did impact some of their subscriber amount, other issues definitely affect the total subscriber amount, including cost (compared to competing against apple TV+, amazon prime video, and disney+), lack of content (which they're trying to work on) and controversy.

They also have competition on the "content" front in that amazon prime video is now creating its own terrible "lets throw money at this until it works" service to compete with them, and many people already have it with prime so don't feel the need to pay netflix's increasingly expensive service.

I don't know about you but netflix costs more than amazon prime for me, so I could either get netflix or I could get all the amazon prime benefits. It's a losing proposition for netflix.

Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#26
post #20

The reason for Netflix lost subscribers in 2022 is the same as the reason Netflix experienced a growth spurt in 2020: work from home. When people work from home, on average they gain an extra hour or more per day, because they don't have to commute. (Not to mention, the boss can't walk up behind you and catch you enjoying a movie!) Now that work from home is over, they no longer need the Netflix subscription.

Netflix losing subscribers is a false narrative. Had they not pulled out of Russia, they would have posted a net gain.

Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#27
post #2

The quoted "competing exec" is 100% wrong when he says Netflix is making a mistake ending shows after three seasons. Shows need to be pitched and run for three seasons max, period. Everyone has a life other than the show that's "hot" for the moment, from cast to writers to the source of money - the viewers. Shows that get dragged out inevitably suck. And yeah, go to weekly releases.

How about the show keeps going for as long as it’s good? Arbitrary time boxes on shows seems silly, some shows are great for 10+ seasons, would suck to lose that because we decided that wasn’t possible

Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#28
Netflix really had a value proposition a few years ago before all the other players came in. A good selection of rotating movies and shows, sharing accounts with a good model (# of simultaneously running screens). This was way better than cable TV and more convenient than torrent.

Now it’s mostly quite mediocre content across services that easily cost $100+ a month, so we’re back to the old cable days in terms of cost and content and instead of switching channels we’re endlessly browsing the library for something interesting.

The consumers just aren’t complete idiots.

- lower quality productions (not the necessarily the cost, just not interesting)

- less good external content

- at the same time constantly increasing prices and/or charging for things that were free at a given tier

If you keep charging more for less, people eventually will get off their lazy asses and cancel the subscription.

One other thing that may have contributed: trying to keep users on the platform for long makes it more difficult to have good content left that hasn’t been watched.

Edit: formatting

Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#29
post #20

The reason for Netflix lost subscribers in 2022 is the same as the reason Netflix experienced a growth spurt in 2020: work from home. When people work from home, on average they gain an extra hour or more per day, because they don't have to commute. (Not to mention, the boss can't walk up behind you and catch you enjoying a movie!) Now that work from home is over, they no longer need the Netflix subscription.

As mertd mentioned, Netflix losing subs was an _unexpected_ loss. In their 2020Q2 10-Q, they made it clear that the increase in subscribers was being pulled forward from subsequent years, and investors were made aware of this. The slowdown after Covid was expected, and factored into the price. It was the cutting off 400K+ subscribers from Russia that spooked investors.

Re: Netflix’s bad habits have caught up with it

#30
I found that analysis of the big picture problems fairly insightful. Many of the stories I hear about working in production companies, especially during the big Amazon/Netflix competition for projects, felt exactly like the heyday of the dot com boom. Money was being thrown at anyone who had a 'hint' even of creating something big and as a result a lot of money got spent pretty uselessly.

I've also been a long time Netflix user from their DVD days to the present and while I did not feel like streaming would be the hit they did (I was totally wrong on that count!) I note that the streaming model had an interesting impact on control.

Specifically with the DVD model, Netflix could go out and buy some number of copies of a movie as soon as it hit the shelves and now you, as a subscriber, could watch it without forking over the $20 - $30. Since they had lots and lots of DVDs you could always find something you would probably like. But in the streaming model this changes. Now the people who "own" the content just rent it to Netflix and once that rental term expires it goes "poof" and vanishes.

Two things then emerged, the content holders created their own streaming service and stopped renting out their content, and Netflix's catalog of things to watch shrank so a customer who watched something before and liked it, and then went to watch it again couldn't find it.

That customer experience, going to a service for a product that was available before but isn't now, and is only available for additional money elsewhere, is a strong negative influence on the "let's find something to watch on Netflix habit."

Once the state of mind changes to (it probably won't be on Netflix any more) then the only reason you watch Netflix is because they advertised something new and you're going to watch it this month before it vanishes. And that can lead to months where you don't watch Netflix at all, and of course that often results in re-evaluating what you are spending per month on a service you aren't using every month.

The market response has been pretty predictable, groups who each sign up for one streaming service and share their passwords with other members of the group so they get access to the aggregated catalogs of a number of services with the monthly cost of one service. Service providers have hinted that they are going to "clamp down" on that sort of thing, but one thing that Netflix proved quite clearly was that "Piracy" was a response to cost and cost alone. Content providers really only have two choices[1], share the content at a price people are willing to pay, or collect nothing as your content is shared for free.

There is some hysteresis here, people put up with a lot of crap until they flip over to "alternative access methods" and then it takes a much lower price than you could have gotten before to get them to switch back to the paid access method.

[1] There is a third choice, lock up the content forever, but that is like the null choice for most content providers.

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