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9-Euro-Ticket

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Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#561

Post by rad_gruchalski »

locallost wrote: post #516
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you do consume stuff transported to your neighborhood by trucks and cars. Maybe you use public transport? That consumes gasoline/diesel and requires infrastructure. Or do you live on home grown food? How's the post at your door every morning? Ambulances? Police? Fire service? Electricians? Packets from Amazon or other MediaMarkt? I don't believe you do not benefit. Ask the people of Ahrweiler what is it like livi…

That's exactly the point, I don't mind that the people have access to that infrastructure if that's all they have, even if I don't personally need it. My inlaws would be dead without their car. You don't get to pay taxes for things you personally need and complain that other people got theirs, which is what you are doing. The infrastructure needed is not the same for goods, and public services compared to tens of mil…

> I don't mind that the people have access to that infrastructure if that's all they have, even if I don't personally need it.

You miss the point completely. You need it. You don’t drive but you consume services directly depending on this infrastructure.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#562

Post by [deleted] »

seoaeu wrote: post #502
wreath wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think you did. Here is an example, maternity leave is 65% of salary but capped at 1800 euros. If you make 6000 a month and want to make use of maternity leave, you have to lower your living standards significantly so you can stat with your child. This would make a lot of sense and fair for someone making ~2800 though. But as a high earner, and a high tax payer, i cannot use this system “feature”.

Presumably you could take the 1800/month and make up the difference with savings? Even with the maternity leave conditions, it is clearly better to be the person making 6000 than 2800. But I still don’t understand your broader point. Mathematically a progressive tax system is going to have high income people pay more taxes than they receive back in government services, to fund the services provided to low/zero income…

[deleted]

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#563

Post by rad_gruchalski »

bigDinosaur wrote: post #542
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you do consume stuff transported to your neighborhood by trucks and cars. Maybe you use public transport? That consumes gasoline/diesel and requires infrastructure. Or do you live on home grown food? How's the post at your door every morning? Ambulances? Police? Fire service? Electricians? Packets from Amazon or other MediaMarkt? I don't believe you do not benefit. Ask the people of Ahrweiler what is it like livi…

You only benefit from the road infrastructure used to transport goods to your location, more or less. Yet your taxes clearly go into a general revenue stream that could be used for any road in the entire country. Anyway you don't get to pick and choose with taxes - although car owners are the absolute worst at wanting things like bicycle licensing.

Yes. So you live in the middle of the country. Some goods come from East, some West, some South, other from the North. It’s good that the infrastructure exists everywhere, no?

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#564

Post by folmar »

pph wrote: post #355
Archelaos wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's not enough wealth in society to guarantee a modest income for everyone One should notice that there a no Communist economies anymore in Europe for more than 30 years. Democratic wellfare states provide in my opinion the best balance between individual incentives and social responsibility. I would argue that a lot of state-managed sectors in various European countries work a lot better than in the US (health…

(This may be an aside, but I want to add this) While it is true that there is quite a difference in GDP per capita between different EU countries, please consider that Luxembourg has a very particular standing and as an outlier is not representative of the "wealthier" EU members. Most of those are in the range of 40k-50k, with only three above this: 114,370 Luxembourg 83,990 Ireland 57,140 Denmark See https://en.wiki…

Also Ireland is another outlier, making a lot of "income" due to being the EU corporate tax heaven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republi...

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#565

Post by est31 »

withinboredom wrote: post #513
6510 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you have an every minute counts life style or career you can get work done while traveling.

This is the biggest thing to me. When I’m on a train, I can text, call, and even get some work done. When I’m driving, it’s actually quite dangerous to attempt those things; and not only for me, but the other people driving around me.

In theory you can, but reception is notoriously bad in german trains. They know about it though and are constantly looking for improvements, e.g. the change a few years ago to allow for free wifi, or developments of glass technology. Links in german.

https://www.golem.de/news/deutsche-bahn-wlan-im-ice-wird-kos...

https://www.golem.de/news/statt-repeater-bahn-holt-5g-durch-...

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#566

Post by locallost »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #561
locallost wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the point, I don't mind that the people have access to that infrastructure if that's all they have, even if I don't personally need it. My inlaws would be dead without their car. You don't get to pay taxes for things you personally need and complain that other people got theirs, which is what you are doing. The infrastructure needed is not the same for goods, and public services compared to tens of mil…

> I don't mind that the people have access to that infrastructure if that's all they have, even if I don't personally need it. You miss the point completely. You need it. You don’t drive but you consume services directly depending on this infrastructure.

I do not need it in the amount that it exists, which I have already stated. I did not write a long post, so there was no need to miss it. It is quite clear that the infrastructure needed is very different with and without tens of millions of private car owners. Furthermore, the users of the infrastructure that I depend on already pay their share because they pay the toll for infrastructure use (e.g. LKW Maut, DB pays for the usage of the railway). So in a nutshell, my taxes are used for your Autobahn, so yours can be used for my train ticket. If you don't like that arrangement, fine by me, let everybody pay just for what they use, but be consistent about it. It will be better for me that way since cars infrastructure is expensive to a ridiculous degree. You can't have everything, sorry.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#567

Post by dathinab »

yifanl wrote: post #490
dathinab wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I mean a 4-bundle of "single one direction" tickets in Berlin (limited to inside of Berlin, not even including the Airport) costs 9.40... A Uber/Taxi also easily costs more then 9€ even for short distances.

Yes, but, for the tourists who dont know, they dont actually check you used a ticket every trip ;) Source: just came back from a week long trip to Berlin and I still have 2/4 tickets unused.

Yes but if they catch you it cost like 60€ or so and legally counts as uh trespassing I think not that the BVG will bother to sue or anything.

So for locals it's still a grate deal.

And the tickets show how long they have been active, so activating them when you see they check might not pass at all (depending on the person checking, the often let it pass anyway).

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#568

Post by cmarschner »

oneplane wrote: post #482
IMTDb wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming that your trip starts and stops exactly next to the train station and that there is a non-delayed train available precisely at the right time. In practice that's not the case and those time add up quickly . Car trip will look like: 1. Travel from start to location (3:20) 2. Find parking (0:5) 3. Walk from parking to location (0:10) Total time of 3:35 Your train trip will look like: 1. Go from start t…

I don't think anyone living in a country with reasonable public transport and uses it actually thinks that that is how it works. I get the feeling that there might be a whole lot of "it sucks in my country so you probably have a bad experience too" replies here (not yours as it's quite a clear illustration of details people might miss), and I would almost immediately assume it'll be mostly people from the US who are…

That‘s the US perspective… which is kind of an outlier, on a global scale.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#569

Post by Pamar »

est31 wrote: post #565
withinboredom wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the biggest thing to me. When I’m on a train, I can text, call, and even get some work done. When I’m driving, it’s actually quite dangerous to attempt those things; and not only for me, but the other people driving around me.

In theory you can, but reception is notoriously bad in german trains. They know about it though and are constantly looking for improvements, e.g. the change a few years ago to allow for free wifi, or developments of glass technology. Links in german. https://www.golem.de/news/deutsche-bahn-wlan-im-ice-wird-kos... https://www.golem.de/news/statt-repeater-bahn-holt-5g-durch-...

Yeah, I can testify that cell coverage is pretty bad, at least in the northern parts. ICE usually offer free wifi and the signal is a bit better, but still not really comparable with what I get in the North of Italy, for example.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#570

Post by bigDinosaur »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #563
bigDinosaur wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only benefit from the road infrastructure used to transport goods to your location, more or less. Yet your taxes clearly go into a general revenue stream that could be used for any road in the entire country. Anyway you don't get to pick and choose with taxes - although car owners are the absolute worst at wanting things like bicycle licensing.

Yes. So you live in the middle of the country. Some goods come from East, some West, some South, other from the North. It’s good that the infrastructure exists everywhere, no?

My point is you don't get to pick and choose. Lots of roads will never benefit for me, yet some % of my tax will be allocated to them. Learn to live with it, I suppose - anyone critical of extreme car-infrastructure overbuild had to learn to live with it 75 years ago.
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