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Is VISA down everywhere in the US?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Is VISA down everywhere in the US?

#31

Post by oceanplexian »

4ggr0 wrote: post #28
oceanplexian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you would need to dispute. Bitcoin, when used properly can’t be “stolen”. Compare that with Visa where every single merchant you come into contact with can steal your card, and charge arbitrary amounts to it by design. As someone who has had to go through a few disputes in recent history, depending on the bank, they treat you like a criminal and need to go though an elaborate process to dispute. And…

You order an item, pay in bitcoin, yet the merchant never ships the item. What now? With credit cards, you can dispute the charge and get your money back. With bitcoin, it's gone forever.

I’ve had that exact scenario happen with credit cards and didn’t get my money back. Not sure what the point is.

Re: Is VISA down everywhere in the US?

#32

Post by edent »

oceanplexian wrote: post #26
lxgr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you never need to dispute a charge, are fine with the volatility, and have an internet connection wherever you need to pay.

I’m not sure what you would need to dispute. Bitcoin, when used properly can’t be “stolen”. Compare that with Visa where every single merchant you come into contact with can steal your card, and charge arbitrary amounts to it by design. As someone who has had to go through a few disputes in recent history, depending on the bank, they treat you like a criminal and need to go though an elaborate process to dispute. And…

If I pay for something, and the merchant doesn't deliver - I have a legal right to a refund which the credit card provider will give me. This is standard in the UK.

If I'm daft enough to pay for something with Bitcoin - well, transactions are irreversible by design. So in the case of non-delivery, or a broken / misdecsribed product, there's no mechanism to force a refund.

If your credit card provider treats you like a criminal - use the free market and choose another one. Or complain to the regulator.

If your cryptocurrency provider is a bit rubbish… well, you're stuck with a single unregulated blockchain.

I know which model I prefer!

Re: Is VISA down everywhere in the US?

#34

Post by Scoundreller »

m348e912 wrote: post #9
encryptluks2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's just wait an hour or two for a transaction to finalize and pay a $50 merchant fee per transaction.

It wasn't always this way :-/

You know the miners control it all when they stopped including free transactions for aged coins (ie: most transactions used to be free).

Re: Is VISA down everywhere in the US?

#35

Post by toomuchtodo »

k__ wrote: post #29
toomuchtodo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So FedNow instant payments? If one has to choose between central finance with regulations, protections, and recourse and cryptofolks running DeFI with zero recourse, which is a financial participant more likely to choose? https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about....

Just imagine you're not in your cushy first world country and that question answers itself.

Sure, crypto might be useful in a few backwater or failing nation states. In all other situations, it’s a dumpster fire being put forth as a solution when there are other superior options.

China, the US, or Europe could even offer digital wallets to individuals in those countries if they could get KYC worked out. Venezuelans use USD via Zelle for example, not crypto.

https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/06/16/venezuela-is-a-t...

Re: Is VISA down everywhere in the US?

#37

Post by mikegreenberg »

4ggr0 wrote: post #28
oceanplexian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you would need to dispute. Bitcoin, when used properly can’t be “stolen”. Compare that with Visa where every single merchant you come into contact with can steal your card, and charge arbitrary amounts to it by design. As someone who has had to go through a few disputes in recent history, depending on the bank, they treat you like a criminal and need to go though an elaborate process to dispute. And…

You order an item, pay in bitcoin, yet the merchant never ships the item. What now? With credit cards, you can dispute the charge and get your money back. With bitcoin, it's gone forever.

Bitcoin transactions can be written to support escrow use cases.

*Edit: Transactions can be sent to a script which requires multiple keys to forward the funds from that script address to a wallet address. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Multi-signature

This is the primary mechanism for escrow services to function. If the need for a CC-like refund feature is important to the user, one could potentially use a service over Bitcoin which is party to a 2-of-3 multisig transaction. The payment may be settled immediately by the buyer and seller. Or either party may dispute with the service provider to settle according to some agreement.

Re: Is VISA down everywhere in the US?

#38

Post by 40four »

No, I’ve used my Visa cards multiple times today. Within the last few hours. Statements like that aren’t uncommon, when a store’s system goes down.

I have no idea why they feel the need to exaggerate, or maybe they are just passing on here-say they got from their manger, without applying critical thinking. Maybe these things spread like the classic ‘telephone’ game.

This actually happened to my friend at a festival a few weeks ago. He was told a similar statement, that the ’WHOLE’ Mastercard network was down across the country. Meanwhile it wasn’t, it was just their particular system.

Really though, how would some random clerk know that information, in the middle of a shift. All they know is theirs is down.

Re: Is VISA down everywhere in the US?

#39

Post by whoopdeepoo »

oceanplexian wrote: post #30
etothepii wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to pay ~$30 a transaction.

Credit cards cost much more than $30. Try spending more than $1000-2000 on a credit card, the merchant easily eats more than that.

Very few places that accept credit cards give cash discounts anymore.

Re: Is VISA down everywhere in the US?

#40

Post by highwaylights »

m348e912 wrote: post #9
encryptluks2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's just wait an hour or two for a transaction to finalize and pay a $50 merchant fee per transaction.

It wasn't always this way :-/

Because the volume was almost zero, which it can handle.

The volume now is (in relative terms) slightly above zero, which it cannot handle.

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