Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

#401

Post by paulryanrogers » Sat, May 21, 2022, 5:59 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #394

paulryanrogers wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Most of their efforts around repair appear to be the minimum anyone motivated by new sales would do once faced with looming regulation. Even if at cost the extreme sophistication and complexity of such tools reinforces the point that these devices aren't r…

> Considering that batteries still only last about a day and Apple led this shift to non-user-swappable batteries they still deserve some blame for landfill culture. Sure, but it seems like this makes phones thinner and lighter and consumers want that. It "sucks" that Apple gave them that option and they went for it, but I don't consider this to be inherently malicious. > Even if at cost the extreme sophistication an…

Intent is less important when we're burning the world for blue bubbles, cheaper waterproofing, and a few millimeters thinner.

If iphones had to be priced with externalities included (via regulation) I suspect they'd get user replaceable batteries shortly there after.

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

#402

Post by spookthesunset » Sat, May 21, 2022, 6:00 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #307

wfhordie wrote: post #93

Apple can’t win here. If they had sent the sleek, easy to carry tools this author asked for, the author would complain about the pathetic tools they are providing. Really disappointed in The Verge on this article. Could have been a cool piece about the specific tech that Apple provides, but instead it’s framed so disingenuously that I come away not feeling particularly good about right to repair in general. It no lon…

I view this differently. This article is documenting a process people are surely curious about. But the costly deposit and multiple heavy pelican cases of supplies show just how deep the hole Apple has dug for themselves really is. Apple is so anti-repair they have no provisions for a reasonable at home process. You must realize that a $1200 deposit alone means this process is out of reach of many people. Meanwhile I…

How can you have a user accessible door to remove the battery while still being at least somewhat thin and water resistant?

I’m sure there are ways but I would probably significantly increase the BOM costs. For example some kind of waterproof battery that connects to a waterproof jack.

That will you the battery but cracked screens and stuff? Those pretty much have to be a pain in the ass to keep the cost, weight and watertight-ness up to spec.

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

#403

Post by spookthesunset » Sat, May 21, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

kllrnohj wrote: post #395

jeffbee wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It removes the ability of the manufacturer to make a phone that is the size and weight people prefer and has the features they want. Billions of people want a waterproof phone and I doubt you could even fill a bus with people who really give a damn whether or not the battery is replaceable in the field.

No it doesn't. Requiring Apple to sell or allow 3rd party replacement parts as well as providing repair documentation does not in any way prevent them from making the phone they currently are. You're confusing (perhaps intentionally) right to repair with the EU's proposal to mandate easily swappable batteries. They are not the same thing.

You can sell the parts and manual, sure. But making it easy for a layman with non specialized tools? That is a tall order against cost, weight and waterproofing.

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

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Post by mlyle » Sat, May 21, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

hermitdev wrote: post #375

mlyle wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it was, say $40 more or even $100 and was marketed as being repairable, I bet a lot of people would buy it. Not all the costs are denominated in dollars. You want a small phone with little wasted volume and waterproofness, you're using adhesive everywhere. There's not room for O-ring seals and flanges and fittings. My phone being small makes it more practical. My phone being waterproof makes it less likely to ne…

My old Samsung Galaxy S4 was water proof and had a removable battery. At least, it was waterproof enough to be able to answer a call in the shower, if need be. I never fully submerged the phone, but casual exposure to water was absolutely fine. Oh, and it had O-rings around the edge of the battery cover. It was a pretty great phone. Its downfall was being too thin. It didn't fit great in my pocket and it ended up get…

Galaxy S4: 136.60 x 69.80 x 7.90mm -- 75.3 cm^3 -- 68 cm^2 screen, volume to screen area ratio 1.10 cm.

IP67, 1m 30 minutes (AKA don't really immerse this-- even if you drop it in a puddle it may not be OK).

iPhone 13 Mini: 131.5 x 64.2 x 7.65mm -- 64.6 cm^3 -- 72 cm^2 screen, volume to screen area ratio 0.9 cm.

IP68, maximum depth 6m 30 minutes (AKA brief immersion in depths of less than a couple meters is OK).

There's a reason why all these adhesives are used everywhere.

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

#405

Post by salawat » Sat, May 21, 2022, 6:04 PM UTC

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #148

newsclues wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I will pay more for a device that is designed to be repaired.

... and when there's enough of you for this to represent an actual, realistic target market you will then find someone who will sell you one. Personally, my perspective on this is that it's a lot like the kind of complaining that gets a lot of play in the motoring press about the disappearance of the manual transmission (like Car and Driver's "Save the Manuals" thing). Lots of people will claim they would like the ch…

Bullshit.

This is a conscious business decision to not accomodate.

Wanna know how I know? (Besides experience in tech)

Sewing machines.

Millions of ladies with sewing machines out there, and harried husbands/partners/neighborhood mechanics/machinists out there that fix the bloody things. Yet, as a fixer thereof, you'll find the older machines are jealously guarded and highly sought after for reliability, stability through heavy loads, and servicibility.

And yet... All you have is plastic pieces of crap that warp and miss stitches under load, increasing usage of integrated circuit boards and plastic gearing.

A corporation will not optimize for the utility to end user and QoSL (Quality of Service Life). They will optimize for future sales and cheaper production. Literally converging on the worst product people will still pay for.

Stop making platitudes that "Oh the economy would accommodate you if only there were more of you!"

It is grade A, concentrated, unadulterated, Bull. Fucking. Shit. The business world will wring every last cent they can out of the buyer, while spending the absolute minimum required to "solve" the problem they set out to fix, and arguably, don't.

I am Quality Inspector number effing 7. I get into knock down, drag out brawls with management on the crap they expect me to put my seal of approval on for the sake of being there to be sneered at by the by the end user.

Enough is e-frigging-nough.

Since you brought up automotive. Same damn thing. Can you get cars with open-source, well documented software running on the ECM and BCM? No. Is CANBUS free and open? Nope. Are engine compartments built for anything else than the ability to be assembled by automaton? Nope.

Farm tractors and Ag equipment. Same bloody thing. This is all according to plan, because it's the default, and capital decides what the most profitable default is going to be.

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

#406

Post by gambiting » Sat, May 21, 2022, 6:04 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #381

kllrnohj wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right-to-repair in no way prevents or hampers Apple's ability to offer that service. If people want the current state, they can continue to pay for it. Right to repair offers strictly more options and choice, it doesn't remove anything

It removes the ability of the manufacturer to make a phone that is the size and weight people prefer and has the features they want. Billions of people want a waterproof phone and I doubt you could even fill a bus with people who really give a damn whether or not the battery is replaceable in the field.

I hate how we have collectively forgotten that there were waterproof phones long before this nonsense from Apple(and others, to be fair). Bah, we even had waterproof phones with removable battery doors. But of course, now somehow humanity forgot how to make those and the only way is gluing everything together.

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

#407

Post by TaylorAlexander » Sat, May 21, 2022, 6:07 PM UTC

spookthesunset wrote: post #402

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I view this differently. This article is documenting a process people are surely curious about. But the costly deposit and multiple heavy pelican cases of supplies show just how deep the hole Apple has dug for themselves really is. Apple is so anti-repair they have no provisions for a reasonable at home process. You must realize that a $1200 deposit alone means this process is out of reach of many people. Meanwhile I…

How can you have a user accessible door to remove the battery while still being at least somewhat thin and water resistant? I’m sure there are ways but I would probably significantly increase the BOM costs. For example some kind of waterproof battery that connects to a waterproof jack. That will you the battery but cracked screens and stuff? Those pretty much have to be a pain in the ass to keep the cost, weight and…

Well, "somewhat thin" is subjective so that is no real barrier. Water resistant? I would think you make the phone in two halves, and it splits in the middle. This way both halves can be sturdy enough that a few screws and a silicone seal are enough to keep the water out. Maybe two halves is the wrong idea, but you can still make a stiff back shell that engages in a row of clips along the side that are tapered so as it catches it presses against a silicone seal. Then just a few screws to hold it in place.

Anyway, Apple has solved a million engineering problems. I bet if they cared as much about user serviceable parts as they do about putting LIDAR in their face scanner, we'd see all kinds of clever solutions. Seriously the idea that Apple, one of the most capable engineering and manufacturing companies to ever have existed, could not elegantly solve this problem is a bit far fetched to me. I think the only reason people cannot conceive of it is that we haven't seen it.

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

#408

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, May 21, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #169

nicoburns wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was, say $40 more or even $100 and was marketed as being repairable, I bet a lot of people would buy it. They would after all be actually likely to get that money back over the lifetime of the phone, and it’s much more environmentally friendly. This isn’t a case of “market doesn’t want it”, this is a case of Apple don’t want to offer that choice because they make money off of the repairs.

> this is a case of Apple don’t want to offer that choice because they make money off of the repairs. Apple is on record saying they lose money on repair services. Or do you think they're just lying about that too?

Apple can say many things, that doesn't make them true. Of course they loose potential money on repairs if they can get customers to buy a new phone instead, that's how consumer electronics make Money.

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

#409

Post by austinkhale » Sat, May 21, 2022, 6:11 PM UTC

js2 wrote: post #344

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I view this differently. This article is documenting a process people are surely curious about. But the costly deposit and multiple heavy pelican cases of supplies show just how deep the hole Apple has dug for themselves really is. Apple is so anti-repair they have no provisions for a reasonable at home process. You must realize that a $1200 deposit alone means this process is out of reach of many people. Meanwhile I…

It's a trade-off. I am someone who repairs my own stuff. I've repaired my fridge, my dishwasher, my oven, my microwave, my garage door openers, my 1998 Jeep Cherokee, and on and on. 99% of people do NOT do this. I've replaced the batteries in multiple first generation iPhone SEs. I'll never replace a battery again in an iPhone, nor do I ever desire too. The phones have become too hard to open, but in return, Apple of…

Playing devil’s advocate for just a second, I really appreciate that my Homepod & Sonos are sealed. It allows for longer device longevity when placed in high humidity environments (bathrooms, tropical areas, etc.).

Definitely a trade-off game with all hardware devices & Apple (and others) are not blameless when it comes to engineering things to be purposefully difficult. However, I think we often underestimate the sheer number of environmental constraints an international hardware retailer with near universal demographic appeal has to account for in designs.

Agree on everything else. The article gets a thumbs down.

Re: Apple Shipped Me a 79-Pound iPhone Repair Kit to Fix a 1.1-Ounce Battery

#410

Post by TaylorAlexander » Sat, May 21, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #331

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I view this differently. This article is documenting a process people are surely curious about. But the costly deposit and multiple heavy pelican cases of supplies show just how deep the hole Apple has dug for themselves really is. Apple is so anti-repair they have no provisions for a reasonable at home process. You must realize that a $1200 deposit alone means this process is out of reach of many people. Meanwhile I…

You have a storage bin holding old smartphones with readily replaceable batteries. That suggests to me that readily replaceable batteries isn't anywhere near the entire story in terms of keeping phones out the landfill (or in your case, a storage bin).

The lack of user replaceable batteries is one symptom of a larger problem, yes. And the symptom being discussed today.