What country is this? I just moved to India from the US and was surprised that it was 9-6 here instead of the 9-5 I was used to. And everyone here is used to overworking.
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Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
301–310 of 312 posts
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>So basically the people who choose to live far away get subsidized? Sure, You can put it this way - if workers living close have problem with that they can move or select another employer (if they prefer commuting to actually working) >> They work fewer hours for the same pay. I would argue that You are using definition of work time that is beneficial for employers. For me every minute of commute to work is due to…
This is entirely a non-workable solution. It’s basically a race to the bottom. If I live 500 km away can I just take a train ride in, stay 30 min then get back on the train ride home and collect a full paycheck? If so, please let me know how to apply.
>> It’s basically a race to the bottom.
It only is if You ignore constraints that exist in real live (as opposed to thought models of economic systems).
>>If I live 500 km away can I just take a train ride in, stay 30 min then get back on the train ride home and collect a full paycheck?
Yes, you can try, but first You have to find employer that is charitable enough to pay You for doing nothing (I have said nothing in my post about forcing employers to take on grifters, just asked to recognize that commute is hidden cost for employees and should be normalized).
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which country is this? I would love to have commute as part of work in my country. Fom the point of law employees materialize at work in the morning and than teleports to home in the evening (the creator of work code here must have been fan of star trek). I believe this kind of change in workers law would motivate employers to implement more sane WFH policies.
> Which country is this? I would love to have commute as part of work in my country. Usually countries with laws about commuting being part of the daily wage are more about people who work across different locations rather than their fixed daily commute (i.e. you have a single fixed 'location' where you work, and then if you travel to another location then you are paid for that travel, for instance a salesperson that…
>>Usually countries with laws about commuting being part of the daily wage are more about people who work across different locations rather than their fixed daily commute (i.e. you have a single fixed 'location' where you work,
Oh, I see, than You are not talking about commuting. This has different name - in my country we use something that can be translated literally as "delegation" - but it rather means business trip, I am not sure what is the international english term for this (I have been part of project creating web apps that did accounting for people that major part of work was traveling to clients).
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you certain the concept of "Getting fired" exists in the way you perceive it over there?
Is this question more than rhetorical? Because the answer is non-obvious to a Westerner like me. Surely there exists a scenario where the company tells an employee "we no longer want you to do anything for us, we will no longer pay you, and you will no longer have access to the building", in that scenario it does sound like they're losing a large part of the people in their life?
I think at this point in the thread, most of us are just outsiders speculating.
To add my bit: given the growth rate of the Chinese economy over the last several decades, it’s highly likely that American style layoffs are exceedingly uncommon in China, to the point where the fear that you may lose your job and thus your whole social life is much less of a fear, at least to the extent that it is perceived as beyond your own control.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#305It might just be that you don't like certain hours. I actually prefer 7 AM to 3 PM, with the lunch break at 3, with family. Then I spend time with family, go for a walk, etc.
Early day lets me get stuff done uninterrupted. It also means I get stuff done by 3 PM, instead of 6, so there's more time to toss it to someone to look at.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#306Ugh no, I would hate that. Rather fewer long days than many short ones.
Having said that, I live in Spain where restaurants don't even open until 8:30pm or so. So it suits not only myself but my environment. When you describe restaurants closed at 7pm, that sounds a bit like the Nordic countries. They're really 'early birds' in my experience, which I find very odd because of the long sun hours there in Summer. When I visited a small town in Sweden, it was deserted in full daylight. I can't wrap my head aorund that.
Also for my my best work is done after hours when things quiet down and I can actually concentrate... My worst hours are the mornings when I struggle to wake up.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#307I think there's a lot of folks who want thiis! I have personally felt burnt-out when working long hours without my proper weekend - which has happened many times in my long tenure. However, I now feel - agreeing with you - that a shorter day with appropriate breaks leads to more productivity!
Would be curious to see if any HN companies have gone ahead and implemented this, and if so, why!
And I am also curious to know people's strategy when feeling burnt out and not getting ample time to rejuvenate/rechArge between bursts of being vErry productive!
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you apply it to manual labour, you will get sick people. If you apply it to intellectual work, people will just pretend to work. I've always been for the reduction of work hours, but this is a really good concise point that I'll put in my pocket. Thanks.
Actually, intellectual work - that in most cases is done by sitting in front of a computer - also causes illnesses, just different from those caused by manual labor. For me this is the largest boon of the pandemic revolution: I can take as many exercise breaks as I want without anyone judging me, I can do some parts of my work while cycling,* and I can adjust my work position they way I like. None of these is possibl…
For the first year, I'd always take meetings (that weren't like 1-1 where I was expecting both to read closely and then talk about it, but the big group meetings with 5 or 10 people and not much usefulness) either walking around the block or else pacing around the house. Actually, even for the 1-1 meetings the pacing is very helpful.
For some reason I stopped that as the Covid wore on.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
yes. people don't realize this, but IT'S OKAY to take a break... in my last office, besides dragging feet to get coffee it seemed people wouldn't even go stretch for 10 seconds. they even bought a brand new PS5 and NEVER even played for months and months (and it probably still accumulates dust over there...) it seemed inhumane - and crazy nobody told them it wasn't okay or anything... I like getting some sun, let the…
there's an unspoken rule to appear productive and "committed" while in the office, especially when everyone else - including your engineering manager - is doing it, you feel a pressure to do the same! same thing for not leaving home at 5pm sharp and waiting 15-30 mins before you allow yourself to leave it has to start from the top
And yet if you have to use or rely on code by other people, you for sure don't want the code from a grinder, work hard and get something out by hook or by crook, rather than the code from a brilliant thinker who goofs around and then does an elegant and complete solution. There's good intentioned and capable people that are a net negative to a code base. It's like yes, this solves the problem of the minute, but couldn't you have taken two hours to think a little?
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah “trouble finding talent” and yet it is the tired old 2010s Google perks being offered. Cheap/free food, couches and pingpong. Offer low tech debt and good hours and get a queue form!
Low tech debt would be ideal but even allocating sprint time to addressing tech debt would be a huge step ahead of many organizations, who just accumulate it until the house comes crashing down.
Yeah, a serious commitment (without fighting) to reserve 10% capacity every sprint/planning cycle to long term vision would be gold.