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Computer science is a liberal arts degree

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Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#51

Post by ukj »

seoaeu wrote: post #49
ukj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is confusing you about my comment? People who understand computer science also understand exactly what I am talking about. Because I explicitly said what I am talking about: undecidability. It is scientifically undecidable what a man; or a woman is. That is a question for the liberal arts and broader society. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undecidable_problem

Your comment is written like a logic puzzle rather than as prose that’s meant to make sense. Well, at least the start of it is, which can be enough to persuade someone to stop reading an move on

A logic puzzle by a computer scientist? Imagine that!

If you don’t understand the reference to the Liar’s paradox you have self-selected yourself as somebody who doesn’t understand computer science.

Similarly: if you prefer prose (which is for humans) and shy away from logic (which is for computation) your interests are better aligned with the “woke” liberal arts; than with computer science.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#52

Post by eimrine »

yesenadam wrote: post #38
eimrine wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally disagree. Mathematics is not a science at all because there is no any possible experiments in the Math fields. And remember what David Hilbert has told about one of his students who decided to go into arts instead of keep learning Math with him. He told "he did not have enough imagination to become a mathematician".

> there is no any possible experiments in the Math fields. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_mathematics Worth googling too, a wide range of things come up: https://www.google.com/search?q=experimental+mathematics

Experimental mathematics is not a field of mathematics, but an approach. In the link you have given I found two approaches called experimental mathematics: proofing theorems by computer contrary to proofing with a pensil, and searching new problems contrary to solving some existing ones.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#53

Post by eimrine »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #44
eimrine wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally disagree. Mathematics is not a science at all because there is no any possible experiments in the Math fields. And remember what David Hilbert has told about one of his students who decided to go into arts instead of keep learning Math with him. He told "he did not have enough imagination to become a mathematician".

Math is abstract, so I would expect experiments in math to have abstract results. I don't think that makes it less of a science.

Any experiment has an abstract result. For example: If throwing a rock from the tower of Pisa gave us result that acceleration of gravity on Earth is 9.8 m/s^2 then that number will be exactly same for throwing any other materials from any other tower on the Earth.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#54

Post by eimrine »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #46
samarama wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mathematics is the most science and least art form possible. Every other field of study has more artsiness than Mathematics. However, Mathematics also still has a lot of artsiness to it.

I feel like we have a better definition of math than we do of art. Thus it's a lot easier to accurately declare a thing is not math, than it is to accurately declare a thing is not art.

Do you have any better definition of math then "that what mathematicians do"?

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#55

Post by yesenadam »

eimrine wrote: post #52
yesenadam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no any possible experiments in the Math fields. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_mathematics Worth googling too, a wide range of things come up: https://www.google.com/search?q=experimental+mathematics

Experimental mathematics is not a field of mathematics, but an approach. In the link you have given I found two approaches called experimental mathematics: proofing theorems by computer contrary to proofing with a pensil, and searching new problems contrary to solving some existing ones.

I was responding to your apparent claim that experimentation is not possible in mathematics. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant.

From Halmos' quote from the wiki page:

"Mathematics is not a deductive science—that's a cliché. When you try to prove a theorem, you don't just list the hypotheses, and then start to reason. What you do is trial and error, experimentation, guesswork. You want to find out what the facts are, and what you do is in that respect similar to what a laboratory technician does"

- it sure sounds like he thinks experiment/experimentation a key part of maths.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#56

Post by eimrine »

ukj wrote: post #11

Yes it is a liberal arts degree: no humans - no need for computation. Understanding ourselves and our needs is necessary for inventing; improving or sustaining any technology. Yes it is a STEM degree: no rigor - no computation. Understanding how the universe works is necessary in order to exploit matter and convince it to do computations for us. Everything humans do (STEM included) is for humans; and by humans. This…

> no humans - no need for computation.

I would disagree with this statement. I have a pet AI program which can get some work done and gain some cryptocurrencies for that and pay for its hosting for keep doing that work. I am sure the AI will overlive all the humans and it really needs some computations for living.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#57

Post by eimrine »

denton-scratch wrote: post #18

Social Science, Ergonomics and Psychology aren't liberal arts subjects. Mediaeval History, French Literature and (arguably) Architecture are examples of liberal arts. I think there's an argument to be made that computer scientists benefit from studying liberal arts; but I think the author fails to make that argument (let alone that CS is actually liberal arts, as per the subject).

> Mediaeval History, French Literature and (arguably) Architecture are examples of liberal arts.

Wait a minute, what of 7 liberal arts are History and Literature in? I can not see any place for that in both Trivium and Quadrivium.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#58

Post by Burner7799 »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #26
curt15 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mathematics itself is half science and half art.

Agreed, and as such, mathematics rightly belongs to the colleges of natural science. Are you trying to conflate natural science with liberal arts? I might be confused by your comment.

He is trying to erase the distinction when talking about mathematics specifically because it leads you to question your own biases.

Mathematics is neither liberal arts nor natural science. Mathematics is a liberal art. Mathematics is a natural science. Mathematics is both liberal arts and natural science.

Which is the “correct” classification of Mathematics is the sort of pointless quarrel that happens at universities.

There is no right answer - the purpose is to argue and understand all biases/positions. The purpose is respectful human interaction around unresolvable differences.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#59

Post by Burner7799 »

eimrine wrote: post #52
yesenadam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no any possible experiments in the Math fields. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_mathematics Worth googling too, a wide range of things come up: https://www.google.com/search?q=experimental+mathematics

Experimental mathematics is not a field of mathematics, but an approach. In the link you have given I found two approaches called experimental mathematics: proofing theorems by computer contrary to proofing with a pensil, and searching new problems contrary to solving some existing ones.

What evidence would convince you that mathematics is empirical?

If your argument was a tautology then what’s the point?

Would you consider interactive theorem proving to be empirical or not? The sort of experiment you perform is you try to see if the computer accepts your proof or not.

Re: Computer science is a liberal arts degree

#60

Post by ukj »

eimrine wrote: post #35
samarama wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mathematics is the most science and least art form possible. Every other field of study has more artsiness than Mathematics. However, Mathematics also still has a lot of artsiness to it.

Totally disagree. Mathematics is not a science at all because there is no any possible experiments in the Math fields. And remember what David Hilbert has told about one of his students who decided to go into arts instead of keep learning Math with him. He told "he did not have enough imagination to become a mathematician".

In the pyramid of human knowledge physics (a science, according to you) rests on top of mathematics (not a science, according to you).

We had mathematics long before we had physics.

So it is pretty obvious that physic is founded upon a liberal art - mathematics.

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