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On Aging Alone (2021)

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Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#181

Post by RayVR »

NalNezumi wrote: post #168
qgin wrote: post #91

Loving families are easy to idealize from afar. How many families actually fit that profile? I’m not entirely sure. This is not a jaded attempt to say the pursuit of relationships or family aren’t worthwhile. I just want to set some context here for those feeling lonely, for those who feel like they are standing outside in the cold on the street looking through windows into warm living rooms full of people with warm…

The WaitbutWhy (funny) post about "How to pick your life partner"[0] might be shedding a light to what you're trying to say/observe. The ladder analogy is the most apt one. Everyone single think they're at the bottom of the ladder looking up at "happy couples" but in reality they are in the middle of the ladder, with unhappy bickering couples below them. A lot of people with this attitude rushes in to relationships,…

Reading that article, I can’t help but feel like this person had little to no experience in a real relationship.

The best marriages I know of are nothing like the ideals they set out in part 2. There are plenty of books and podcasts exploring long lasting relationships. The qualities listed in part 2 miss the mark.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#182

Post by panaffa »

didericis wrote: post #151
Tenoke wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement, etc. How about we don't ignore things that can help actual people and leave them worse off just because in theory there are also nicer sounding solutions.

I'm not sure I'm interpreting you correctly, but if you're claiming what I'm talking about is just theoretical, real life communities have existed throughout the entirety of our species. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for companion AIs, I just think it's horrible to consider them as anything other than a narcotic. They might work as a replacement for companionship in tragic situations where there are no other…

I agree with the sentiment, but tbh a lot of people suffer alone on this planet and designing societal structures to serve absolutely everyone's emotional needs would be impossible. An AI would be perfect for all the misfits, elderly, loners, disabled, "ugly," outcasts, etc, right?

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#183

Post by throwawaylonely »

bowsamic wrote: post #124
snvzz wrote: post #40

We need to start thinking about doing something about the aging problem. The tools are here, it's a matter of getting it done. SENS foundation is trying just that[0]. 0. https://www.sens.org/our-research/intro-to-sens-research/

I find it bizarre and unsettling that there is a big group of HN users who seem to be scared of death

If you're not, why not die now? If you get an infection that would kill you without medical attention, why not just let it kill you?

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#184

Post by jazzythom »

bambax wrote: post #155
jazzythom wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my tinder has been quiet for years. I’m looking for an attractive mate and I’m 1) not that attractive 2) fat 3) bald(ing) 4) old enough to be the father of those I consider 5) not rich or successful (yet) and worst of all if I got the pretty girl I wouldn't know what to do with her. I don’t want to be that guy. What I want is to go back in time to when I was young. I guess dating just wasn't in my lot. Everyone gets…

This comment is reminiscent of a funny interview Larry David did on Conan: > My problem is that I was very particular, which is odd because I was very desperate at the time. (...) You'll find that a lot of desperate people are very particular, like even Quasimodo. The hunchback had to have the best looking girl in the village. And then his friends would like and fix him up. They'd go "Quasi, there's a very nice girl…

That’s very funny and true but it makes sense. You want your offspring hopefully to be more attractive than you are, in addition to other beneficial hereditary traits. And its a competitive play, since each successive generation seems to be more attractive generally, with the losers of each round childless. So you’re leveraging your other qualities to the maximum without going too far and ending up with nothing. Its a gamble

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#185

Post by panda-giddiness »

Tenoke wrote: post #142
didericis wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement, etc. I'm kind of tired of the commodification of anything and everything. Communities aren't just supposed to be these bureaucratically labelled abstract co-locations of people mediated by a billion different services, you're supposed to actually try to get t…

>How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement, etc. How about we don't ignore things that can help actual people and leave them worse off just because in theory there are also nicer sounding solutions.

> How about we don't ignore things that can help actual people and leave them worse off just because in theory there are also nicer sounding solutions.

I appreciate this approach in general, but it's worth remembering that proposed solutions can feel right without actually being right. Indeed, these proposals are often more dangerous than those that are obviously wrong since they effect undeserved complacency.

Implicitly you have assumed that AI companions could actually help the elderly stave off their loneliness, but is there any evidence that this assumption is true? Suppose, for example, that AI companions wouldn't actually help at all, but whatever company develops the software markets it as effective anyway. Some local government might read the advertisement and decide to buy a subscription to their software rather than budget for a community center. Ironically, the net effect would be to make the elderly even lonelier.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#186

Post by bowsamic »

throwawaylonely wrote: post #183
bowsamic wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it bizarre and unsettling that there is a big group of HN users who seem to be scared of death

If you're not, why not die now? If you get an infection that would kill you without medical attention, why not just let it kill you?

Just because I'm not scared of death doesn't mean I don't see any reason to live. I enjoy life and living. I would pursue treatments but there is eventually a limit past which I would not bother

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#187

Post by amelius »

throwaway892238 wrote: post #95

Do not try to fight loneliness. It is a natural part of life, like thunderstorms. You can try to tease it apart, understand how it works, where it comes from, try to predict it, come up with coping mechanisms. But the storms still come regardless. They are here for a reason, with their appropriate place in a natural system. But we don't need to understand the reason to accept it. Acknowledge the feeling, sit with it…

Unless you suffer from avoiding personality disorder, in which case the weather might never change.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#188

Post by seydor »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #180
seydor wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to eastern asian cultures and indian subcontinent where multi-generational families mean you're never really alone. It's high birth rates that create such culture. Europe and US are not comparable , and over time people will get lonelier and lonelier unless they decide to adjust their way of life around this issue and stop living with 20th century standards. Cities should be designed with the single-person in mind…

It's not just the culture. Young people are staying home more out of financial convenience and necessity in Europe. The market hasn't made enough affordable housing to keep the status quo running.

The market would if it wasn't so restricted

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#190

Post by 0xRusty »

justrudd wrote: post #111

I was talking with my sister a couple of days ago, and we started talking about being alone. She is an extrovert’s extrovert. When things were locked down for her, she got really, really depressed. At one point, she didn’t even care if she got COVID because she was slowly going insane not being around people everyday. Zoom, texting, etc. didn’t work for her. So for her, alone == loneliness. I am on the total opposite…

This situation sounds quite similar to me. In my mid 30s now and the COVID pandemic has pretty much killed off the social life I used to have. A group of us moved from the UK to Canada about the same time 10 years ago and for a few years we used to do everything together. We'd be that big group at a restaurant on a Friday night, ordering cocktails and sat there for 3+ hours that everyone else rolls their eyes at. Someone would always be up for doing something at the weekend and no one was ever really alone. Today that group chat has gone cold. The last text message was from about Dec 2019. No one wants to do anything anymore, some have got married, some have had kids, some have bought that cabin up in the sticks and spend weekends there.

I go to the movies alone now. Instead of going to restaurants with a group I now sit alone in McDonald's or maybe a ramen bar if I'm feeling fancy. I'm a loner, I'm not really interested in romantic relationships, I might get a dog one of these days but the time isn't right at the moment. Do I feel sad? Not really. I've kind of resigned myself to this realization that this is the way it's going to be. This is my life . It's lonely socially and I don't have a huge number of friends left, but I'm super busy at work. I'm in (and actively leading) teams calls from 9am to 6pm, monday-friday, literally non stop. I get home exhausted.

My solution to all of this - VR. My oculus quest headset provides me with a great outlet on those fairly rare occasions I feel sand and lonely and need to reach out. I can play poker with a table full of people often with exciting and colourful lives of their own. I can watch a movie with a theatre full of people making witty or insightful comments at just the right time. I can play 1 on 1 mini golf with a stranger and have some deep interesting chats for an hour or so.

For me this is enough.

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