Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m sorry but this is profoundly and aggressively incorrect. The civil war was not reframed after the fact to be about slavery, quite the opposite in fact. The ‘reframing’ is in fact what you’ve tried to assert, in that it was supposedly a matter of economics rather than slavery (though of course other factors were certainly at play). It’s part of the ‘lost cause’ narrative furthered by the southern states after the…
I’ve always wondered why people reframing the civil war to be about economics rather than slavery, don’t consider slaves are part of the economy (and that slavery itself is a perversion of an economic system). If you value free market economics, like we so often do today, then step one ought to be free mobility of labor which means laborers ought to be literally free of physical chains binding them to their “employer…
What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
231–240 of 278 posts
Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
American russophobia is a sad state of affair considering history, they also gave Alaska for a negligible price. > When the Civil War broke out, both England and France considered hostile intervention on behalf of the South and they tried to convince the Tsar to join them. Alexander II’s refusal was critically important because the British and French then decided to abort their plans. It's crazy to think Russia deter…
America and Russia had a great relationship until the end of WWI. The Bolshevik’s set this in stone towards the end of the civil war when the entente (specifically Britain) opened dialogue towards a trade deal. Lenin used them as the great other, despite knowing they wanted normalized relations, and then the USSR taking Eastern Europe sealed the deal. Self determination was US policy at that time (and kind of ever si…
Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Probably referring to Russia looking to return to a command economy: https://cepa.org/rattled-russia-re-embraces-the-command-econ... Not good for the people of Russia, but nothing good can come while Putin is still in power.
Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
I mean no, I trust accurate historical sources. I'm just saying the stuff you're spouting is so completely obviously off base that it's directly contradicted by Wikipedia. Like you're not even trying to go for a thing that is debated. Literally no one pushes the story your telling, you've made it up! I cannot find anything, anything that corroborates any of the stuff you're saying. Sumter wasn't empty when shelled. T…
Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’ve always wondered why people reframing the civil war to be about economics rather than slavery, don’t consider slaves are part of the economy (and that slavery itself is a perversion of an economic system). If you value free market economics, like we so often do today, then step one ought to be free mobility of labor which means laborers ought to be literally free of physical chains binding them to their “employer…
You have to ask - if there was no cotten export industry of such a scale, would we of had still had slavery at the scale it was in that era?
Even in the worst environments, some small elite will always benefit by enslaving the rest of the populace. Take for example, the Danes taking English slaves. It was not an economy bursting with productivity and wealth, yet slavery still existed because “elite” warriors didn’t want to wash their own clothes or grow their own crops or make their own entertainment.
This is why I called slavery an economic perversion. There is no job that can’t be done by someone enslaved. Slaves may start as field workers, but they eventually become supervisors. From bed warmers to dancers, singers, and composers. From household servants, they become palace chefs. From nannies they become tutors. From handmaids they become house stewards and accountants. If the practice isn’t stamped out (or restricted via laws such as a caste system since mere social pressure won’t stop the elite from maximizing profit from more educated slaves), it just grows more varied.
I would bet if institutional slavery existed legally today, even computer programmers would face stiff competition from that source rather than having to worry about jobs being outsourced.
Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
It also featured a little bit of trench warfare. I imagine the European observers who saw that were like "Huh, definitely not important, let's not come up with strategies to counter this sort of thing" and then forgot about it for the next 50 years or so.
The missing ingredient that prevented the ACW from turning into static trench warfare similar to the later Western Front was probably barbed wire, which was only patented in 1867.
Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean no, I trust accurate historical sources. I'm just saying the stuff you're spouting is so completely obviously off base that it's directly contradicted by Wikipedia. Like you're not even trying to go for a thing that is debated. Literally no one pushes the story your telling, you've made it up! I cannot find anything, anything that corroborates any of the stuff you're saying. Sumter wasn't empty when shelled. T…
Its is so far past midnight where I am, Ill come back tomorrow to find sources better than a quick google search can provide. You are right, I jumped the gun on its occupation, thank you for calling me out on that. I think it was the lack of casualties and the fact I have read sources speaking to the intent of SC on damaging the fort and causing a fire storm was its strategy rather than the desire to cause casualties…
See the wikipedia page:
> Governor Pickens, therefore, ordered that all remaining Federal positions except Fort Sumter were to be seized. State troops quickly occupied Fort Moultrie (capturing 56 guns), Fort Johnson on James Island, and the battery on Morris Island. On December 27, an assault force of 150 men seized the Union-occupied Castle Pinckney fortification, in the harbor close to downtown Charleston, capturing 24 guns and mortars without bloodshed. On December 30, the Federal arsenal in Charleston was captured, resulting in the acquisition of more than 22,000 weapons by the militia. The Confederates promptly made repairs at Fort Moultrie and dozens of new batteries and defense positions were constructed throughout the Charleston harbor area, including an unusual floating battery, and armed with weapons captured from the arsenal.
They were gathering weapons and armaments, and had 6000 men ready to siege Sumter (and it's 90 Union soldier), to start a war! Months later, at first Manassas, the CSA forces (which were mostly the Virginia Militia) at that battle numbered 40,000.
> Does the third ammendment not strike a resemblance here?
Are you saying that South Carolina was still a part of the US, in which case firing on US soldiers was treason?
> How could sc stand idle when a now foreign army is sneaking
They were already there! The Soldiers who eventually moved into Sumter were previously stationed like a half mile away, and had already been besieged and cut off by SC troops. They moved from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter because it was a more defensible position as there were only 90 union troops who were being harassed by more than a thousand SC militia men. That eventually grew to more than 5000!
The Union wasn't building up troops on the border. There were 90 guys in a fort. That's it. There were multiple failed attempts to send them food, because the fort was being blockaded and the soldiers were starving, Lincoln was clear that these weren't attempts to reinforce, but simply to provide supplies. None of that is even remotely controversial.
And of course, multiple high ranking confederates knew this was the start of the war. Quoting the wiki page again:
> James had offered the first shot [at fort Sumter] to Roger Pryor, a noted Virginia secessionist, who declined, saying, "I could not fire the first gun of the war."
and
> Edmund Ruffin, another noted Virginia secessionist, had traveled to Charleston to be present at the beginning of the war, and fired one of the first shots at Sumter after the signal round
They were very intentionally trying to start a war!
Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
#238Is Chesney the Guards officer that is portrayed in the "lost cause" movie Gettysburg?
Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right now, Russophobia is kind of healthy thinking. Their current mix of tsarism and return to kinda communist thinking except the communist ideology is sucky and dangerous.
Pick one: - Russia is an authoritarian state lead by one man and his inner circle - It is rational to hate Russians in general
That is no contradiction. Authoritarians can have public support while at the same time severely oppressing opposition or anyone who dares to voice something else.
Also, opposition to Putin does not imply opposition to annexation of Ukrainian lands or turning Ukrainians into Russians by force. Opposition to Putin does not imply pro-democracy reform either.
> It is rational to hate Russians in general
Hate is a feeling. But accusations of Russophobia are all about support for sanctions or Ukraine in war. And are deployed whenever someone points out Russia as is now is threat to not just Ukraine, but to all countries in former eastern block.
All those are rational. So, if that matter average Russians look really down on Ukrainians too, are happy to use slurs against them and act offended it other formerly occupied countries are not "thankful".
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If anything, Russia was enabled rather then opposed for years. It was treated as something special, more worthy then other countries around it.
Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
Putin ordered Russian forces to be on the highest level of nuclear readiness. We have programs on Russian state TV where people talk about using nuclear weapons to drown the UK and devastate the European coast with a nuclear tsunami. This is a scary time we live in. The conversation of the Russian invasion of Ukraine may now be centered on NATO, but it began with statements of routine training exercises at the border…
If Russophobia is a widespread phenomenon then it started way before 2022.
Common, Ukrainian invasion did not happened out of blue. And I don't even mention Russia actively trying to influence politics of ther countries to the worst.