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What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

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Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#21

Post by sillyquiet »

nostromo wrote: post #14
sillyquiet wrote: post #9

I think the real answer and probably why the article is a bit light on actual anecdotes, is that Britain or its military at the time probably didn't think much of it all, especially from a military point of view. Plus they were super busy with imperial concerns, especially in the British Raj post-1857 rebellion. The U.S., although gaining steam economically (pun intended), was still a backwater, rural, nation isolate…

The US economy overtook the UK's right around the civil war. That's also around when the US population overtook the UK's. They may have not thought much about the war, but it wouldn't be because the US had a small economy or population.

Right right, you are absolutely correct, but I meant that the U.S. was inconsequential to Europe militarily.

Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#22

Post by kensai »

nostromo wrote: post #14
sillyquiet wrote: post #9

I think the real answer and probably why the article is a bit light on actual anecdotes, is that Britain or its military at the time probably didn't think much of it all, especially from a military point of view. Plus they were super busy with imperial concerns, especially in the British Raj post-1857 rebellion. The U.S., although gaining steam economically (pun intended), was still a backwater, rural, nation isolate…

The US economy overtook the UK's right around the civil war. That's also around when the US population overtook the UK's. They may have not thought much about the war, but it wouldn't be because the US had a small economy or population.

Really? I thought that happened way after WWI. The UK economy back then had a gazillion of colonies to sustain it.

Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#23

Post by umeshunni »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #13

After the war I'm sure they took note. The US Army of the North was then the largest army in the world. That had to be concerning. Second place? The US Army of the South.

Looks like the troop strength was 200-600K on each side. I'm not sure that would have been the largest army in the world.

source: https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/facts.htm#:~:text=In%20July%201....

Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#24

Post by sillyquiet »

bombcar wrote: post #19
pirate787 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US South provided 80% of British cotton, and the textile industry was the UK's largest employer and industry.[1]. [1] https://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/show/liverpools-aberc...

The US was economically beginning to be involved on the world level, but wasn't really a "power worth considering" until after WWI, partially just because of distance.

yeah, this was really my point. A (maybe terrible) modern analogy is how concerned would we be with a civil war in say, South America, where a significant chunk of our lithium comes from? We would probably be concerned, but our economic and military clout means that we would always be the customer for whoever won that civil war.

Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#25

Post by jeremyjh »

sillyquiet wrote: post #9

I think the real answer and probably why the article is a bit light on actual anecdotes, is that Britain or its military at the time probably didn't think much of it all, especially from a military point of view. Plus they were super busy with imperial concerns, especially in the British Raj post-1857 rebellion. The U.S., although gaining steam economically (pun intended), was still a backwater, rural, nation isolate…

Quite a few European powers embedded observers with both sides of the conflict. The application of improved small arms and artillery was something that military minds were very interested in, to see how it played out in a large scale conflict.

Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#26

Post by pcaharrier »

cperciva wrote: post #3

Not mentioned: Towards the end of the Civil War, British officers became very concerned that the large and now experienced army might turn its attention North, as they had some 50 years prior. The Civil War was thus a direct catalyst for Canadian confederation.

In fact, there were some men (Irish nationalists) who gained military experience during the Civil War that were involved in armed raids into Canada from 1865-1871. Encyclopedia article: https://www.britannica.com/event/Fenian-raids

Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#27

Post by the_only_law »

sillyquiet wrote: post #24
bombcar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US was economically beginning to be involved on the world level, but wasn't really a "power worth considering" until after WWI, partially just because of distance.

yeah, this was really my point. A (maybe terrible) modern analogy is how concerned would we be with a civil war in say, South America, where a significant chunk of our lithium comes from? We would probably be concerned, but our economic and military clout means that we would always be the customer for whoever won that civil war.

> We would probably be concerned, but our economic and military clout means that we would always be the customer for whoever won that civil war.

Don’t we typically just give a fuckton of guns and resources (and maybe more) to whichever side we want to win.

Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#28

Post by machinerychorus »

Animats wrote: post #17
ElevenLathe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the American Revolution. The American Civil War typically refers to the conflict of 1861-1865.

"War of Northern Aggression".

The south will rise again! and get its ass beat again!

Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#29

Post by westcort »

My key takeaways:

* Miller and Chesney’s lectures describe the course of the war up to that point, with Chesney focussing first on fighting in Virginia and then on operations in the west and south, such as Sherman’s March to the Sea

* In his lectures, Chesney laments that Sherman, in his March to the Sea near the end of the war, ‘has given no voucher or note anywhere for the supplies he has seized [from civilians]’ and expresses concern about whether the North and South could be reconciled, given the brutality of the conflict

* The combat between the Monitor and the Merrimac, notable for being the first clash between ironclad ships, is referenced but purposely not discussed because ‘the result has not influenced the military progress of the war’

* In some cases, the conduct of the Civil War was used by British officers to justify their own opinions of how the UK should prepare its military for future wars

* The RUSI lectures demonstrate the challenges of following a war as it is occurring from a distance, the disappointment with the Union’s military performance early in the war and the manner in which foreign conflicts were mobilised to justify the policies of people like the Duke of Cambridge

Re: What did British officers think of the American civil war as it was happening?

#30

Post by Arrath »

Animats wrote: post #17
ElevenLathe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the American Revolution. The American Civil War typically refers to the conflict of 1861-1865.

"War of Northern Aggression".

Alternatively, "War of Southern Treason".
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