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9-Euro-Ticket

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Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#351

Post by NicoJuicy »

Toutouxc wrote: post #170
Scarblac wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Dutch Scouts of age 15-17 also plan their own camps and do so on a shoestring budget, and it turns out that yes you can get from the Netherlands to the Czech Republic with all your camping gear using only like fifteen different German regional trains :-)

Related: We're a Czech couple, currently planning our vacation in the Netherlands, and we too are on a very tight budget. I wanted so bad to get there by train and spend the week there riding Dutch trains all over the place, but man, the train journey there and back is just as long as a car trip (~10-12 hours) and costs at least twice as much. Looks like we'll be taking our 50 MPG car instead and since it will be the…

Prague - Amsterdam by bus

13:30 hours - 120 €

Look up Flixbus. It's slow, but cheap.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#352

Post by thebean11 »

iggldiggl wrote: post #343
thebean11 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Farebox recovery ratios in Germany before Covid were around 75 %, so abolishing all fares would mean quadrupling the budget for operating subsidies You aren't taking into account the money saved from eliminating all the infrastructure needed for collecting and enforcing the fares like OP mentioned.. Unless farebox recovery ratio already subtracts the money spent to collect fares? That's not my understanding though.

You're right, eliminating the infrastructure for fares would save some amount of money, but I'd be surprised if it was really that much of a substantial fraction compared with the actual operation of the vehicles.

I think it's significant, there must be tons of full time employees who are checking tickets, selling tickets, doing maintenance on machines, administering subsidized fare programs etc. I don't think it's 25% or anything, but I wouldn't be surprised it it was in the double digits.

Aside from that, though, it's not as if the money not collected in fares is lost. That's money that people get to keep. It's a direct economic benefit to people using transit, and a smaller indirect benefit to everyone else.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#353

Post by Tomte »

thesimon wrote: post #342
Tomte wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The RE from Stuttgart to Singen (I used to ride that train regularly and did so recently again) has been co-labeled "IC" for some time now, even though the rolling stock is distinctly RE. It has been confusing even before the 9 Euro ticket.

> even though the rolling stock is distinctly RE It is painted in white and the floor is carpeted, making it a IC train.

Oh, maybe it was broken and I got a substitute when I took it a few months ago. Thanks, that's new to me!

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#354

Post by nixass »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #351
Toutouxc wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: We're a Czech couple, currently planning our vacation in the Netherlands, and we too are on a very tight budget. I wanted so bad to get there by train and spend the week there riding Dutch trains all over the place, but man, the train journey there and back is just as long as a car trip (~10-12 hours) and costs at least twice as much. Looks like we'll be taking our 50 MPG car instead and since it will be the…

Prague - Amsterdam by bus 13:30 hours - 120 € Look up Flixbus. It's slow, but cheap.

To spend 13.5hrs in Flixbus, dear god..

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#355

Post by pph »

Archelaos wrote: post #340
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First thing I thought of even though I never heard of this example: It's a terrible idea if you think about it with an economic mind. There are very few scenarios where making things "free" can actually provide a long term benefit for the public. The reason Communist economies don't work isn't because there's not enough wealth in society to guarantee a modest income for everyone. It's because once you take the incent…

> there's not enough wealth in society to guarantee a modest income for everyone One should notice that there a no Communist economies anymore in Europe for more than 30 years. Democratic wellfare states provide in my opinion the best balance between individual incentives and social responsibility. I would argue that a lot of state-managed sectors in various European countries work a lot better than in the US (health…

(This may be an aside, but I want to add this)

While it is true that there is quite a difference in GDP per capita between different EU countries, please consider that Luxembourg has a very particular standing and as an outlier is not representative of the "wealthier" EU members. Most of those are in the range of 40k-50k, with only three above this: 114,370 Luxembourg 83,990 Ireland 57,140 Denmark

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#356

Post by sonar_un »

amin wrote: post #222

In Luxembourg, all public transport is free for everyone. I was just there, and as a tourist, it saved me a lot of hassle not needing to figure out where and how to buy which ticket. Jump hop on any train, bus or tram :). And yes, I understand why this wouldn't work well in other countries.

I was there last winter and the free transport was just incredible. Especially for a tourist. On top of all of the busses and trams being super new and clean, it was a dream.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#357

Post by Aperocky »

johnday wrote: post #285
cbmuser wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had cities with free public transport in Germany. One example was the city of Templin in Brandenburg. The project was eventually abandoned because lots of people were just riding the busses out of boredom and busses were permanently full with costs exploding for the city. See: https://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/artikel/nahverkeh...

It seems like an almost-free, unlimited-use ticket would suffer the same way.

Speaking only for myself, my laziness is really the only reason that I've not been doing whatever things I could be doing. And that has been consistent throughout changes in my economic situation.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#358

Post by kingofpandora »

jeroen wrote: post #241
master-lincoln wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "free traveling across Germany for a month" It's 3 months

No, it's 1 month (in a 3 month period): > For 9 euros, you can travel throughout Germany on local/regional trains for a whole month in June, July or August.

Pro-tip: buy three tickets!

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#359

Post by LosWochosWeek »

stavros wrote: post #321
pwdisswordfish0 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I expect that if the ticket is a success, it will be replaced by real free rides in the future. What’s your confidence level here? Because if you can make me believe that the ticket is effectively a vote for ticketless/free ÖPNV I will buy them for everyone I know.

What's the difference between this and completely free rides? AFAIK, making it "almost free" is usually preferable, as it prevents some abuse ("it's free so I'll take it even when I don't really need it", which depletes the resource), while still making it effectively free.

We've also seen the opposite being true. In Germany, oddly enough. It was called "Praxisgebühr" and it was a 10€ fee that you had to pay once per quarter year (if you went to a doctor in that quarter). Turns out, once people paid the 10€ they got into a all-you-can-eat frenzy and visited more doctors than they normally would have done, because "well, I paid for it, so might as well take advantage of it".

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#360

Post by Aperocky »

Archelaos wrote: post #134
Escapado wrote: post #75

I would argue making it free and keeping it free would have been a cool move. - Less/no expensive accounting - Less/no personnel for checking tickets - Less/no personnel for prosecuting people who don't have tickets - Less/no ticket vending machines (and all the maintenance that comes with it) - Less traffic on the roads since you can't beat "free" and hence less emissions (at least in hamburg trains operate on green…

> I would argue making it free and keeping it free would have been a cool move. Here in Germany, there were many voices in favour of making the ticket completely free. What I heard about the reason for not doing so is that the government wanted to easily measure the actual demand in different regions for such a "free" ticket. So the price is low enough that anybody who wants to ride practically "for free" is buying i…

> easily measure the actual demand in different regions

A ticket for $0 would have done it.

Still have to book for it, and probably should have rate limits like other pseudo free services (Google don't charge you for search, etc).

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