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9-Euro-Ticket

bahn.com

331–340 of 598 posts

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#331
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming that your trip starts and stops exactly next to the train station and that there is a non-delayed train available precisely at the right time. In practice that's not the case and those time add up quickly . Car trip will look like: 1. Travel from start to location (3:20) 2. Find parking (0:5) 3. Walk from parking to location (0:10) Total time of 3:35 Your train trip will look like: 1. Go from start t…

Finding parking is hilariously underestimated for any metro area I've been to.

Surrender and find the cheapest parkhaus before you go.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#332
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the meantime I just paid 200% more for heating oil than it cost me one year ago. And I cannot use this public transport offer. But I am contributing to it with my taxes.

In other words, your transportation patterns don’t let you reduce your oil use, so you’re doing your part by paying slightly higher taxes to benefit those who can? That doesn’t seem like a bad thing

You mean I‘m partially funding their cheap transportation? Where is the money for these cheap tickets coming from?

But your comment kinda makes sense. It’s not really worth trying much in Germany. The more one tries, the more one becomes the source of funding for others while not really getting any personal gratification or gain.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#333
post #323
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming that your trip starts and stops exactly next to the train station and that there is a non-delayed train available precisely at the right time. In practice that's not the case and those time add up quickly . Car trip will look like: 1. Travel from start to location (3:20) 2. Find parking (0:5) 3. Walk from parking to location (0:10) Total time of 3:35 Your train trip will look like: 1. Go from start t…

I'm not sure what "Wait at location because there was no better train" means? Are you massuming a 3h40m trip for a specific time-based appointment? I think the use case of this kind of train is more similar to a flight with one or more nights at destination, so that the specific arrival time is not that important.

Let’s say you have an appointment at location 15 minutes away from train station at 9:00 and your train arrives at 7:45. You will have to wait for 1 hour and probably spend this time unproductively and maybe even at extra cost (e.g. you choose to get a cup of coffee and a sandwich in a restaurant nearby).

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#334

For anyone wondering why 9€? Not 10€ or 15€ or ... - its consistent with 101 consumer psychology. First: Its not free, its subsidized by the state. Free would suggest for some "not worth it". Not you, most likely, but this is why some free offers are not taken (seriously). If you want to see what free does, look for the Luxemburg experient: https://www.mobiliteit.lu/en/tickets/free-transport/ Second: Higher price poi…

> First: Its not free, its subsidized by the state.

„The state“ doesn’t have its „own money“. It is subsided by the taxpayer.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: We're a Czech couple, currently planning our vacation in the Netherlands, and we too are on a very tight budget. I wanted so bad to get there by train and spend the week there riding Dutch trains all over the place, but man, the train journey there and back is just as long as a car trip (~10-12 hours) and costs at least twice as much. Looks like we'll be taking our 50 MPG car instead and since it will be the…

Have you considered long distance buses from something like Flixbus? I live in Rotterdam and see them coming into the central station from all over Europe.

I'm Czech. When I lived in Amsterdam, my sister came to visit by Flixbus. She's used to all kinds of travel, but boy was she destroyed by that journey...

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: We're a Czech couple, currently planning our vacation in the Netherlands, and we too are on a very tight budget. I wanted so bad to get there by train and spend the week there riding Dutch trains all over the place, but man, the train journey there and back is just as long as a car trip (~10-12 hours) and costs at least twice as much. Looks like we'll be taking our 50 MPG car instead and since it will be the…

Quoted post unavailable.

You may be surprised to know that this is actually something people have thought about; turns out you would need extremely low utilization of the train, plus a very long journey at each end by car, plus one of the more inefficient train routes, for it to lose to the car or the plane. High speed trains are generally the least efficient in CO2/passenger km, so if you’re looking to put this together then I would recommend France’s excellent analysis of their carbon output on their routes.

As one example, the Paris-Geneva TGV Lyria is 3.5 kg co2e per person per trip on an average utilization train. [0] Driving is 149 kg co2e per vehicle; average occupancy is 1.12 to 1.6 people per car but let’s be generous to your idea and say we have a full average Swiss family of 2.3 people along for the ride. So driving is 64.7 kg co2e per person. It’s a 5.5 hour drive, so let’s be very favorable to the car again and say they have a 1 hour taxi ride at each destination. You’re now at a total of 23.2kg taxi + 3.5kg train = 26.7kg total, or half that of driving; as you can see even a 10x capacity reduction in the train would still make the train more efficient. It’s remarkably hard to beat a train with anything other than a bus, and you’ll need a fairly efficient bus and a fairly inefficient train for that.

[0] https://www.tgv-lyria.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/t...

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#337
post #323
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming that your trip starts and stops exactly next to the train station and that there is a non-delayed train available precisely at the right time. In practice that's not the case and those time add up quickly . Car trip will look like: 1. Travel from start to location (3:20) 2. Find parking (0:5) 3. Walk from parking to location (0:10) Total time of 3:35 Your train trip will look like: 1. Go from start t…

I'm not sure what "Wait at location because there was no better train" means? Are you massuming a 3h40m trip for a specific time-based appointment? I think the use case of this kind of train is more similar to a flight with one or more nights at destination, so that the specific arrival time is not that important.

> I think the use case of this kind of train is more similar to a flight with one or more nights at destination, so that the specific arrival time is not that important.

OP was explicitly comparing car and trains, not flight and trains.

If that's the case, then we are more in the context of a "city trip", and Hamburg -> Berlin might not be the most representative case. Something along the line of Hamburg -> Rome is more accurate as people usually like more change of scenery. Flight from Hamburg to Rome is 2:20 and train is 19 hours. Even accounting for airport wait time, the difference is ridiculous.

The issue for passenger transport with rails is that it's not good for small distances as cars have the advantage because of the added convince/flexibility, and for long distances, flight is better due to speed.

For freight, however, train is amazing as these extra hours don't matter too much and the reduction in emissions is massive. The issue is that there aren't that many dedicated cargo flights. Most cargo revenue come from transporting freight in the holds of passenger jets. So moving cargo from flights to trains does not lead to a direct reduction in CO2 emission since those planes are going to fly anyway.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#338
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also it is completely useless for people living on the countryside. The nearest train station is a 20 minute drive away from where I live, so this does nothing for me. Still better than nothing, I guess.

Over 75% of Germans live in cities or towns which overwhelmingly have reliable bus transit at least at daytime. Those remaining <25% are not really important here and can still use their cars.

> Over 75% of Germans live in cities

Unrelated to this topic but that explains why Germans are so eager to remove forest in order to build windmills. People in the city obviously don’t notice it anyway.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: We're a Czech couple, currently planning our vacation in the Netherlands, and we too are on a very tight budget. I wanted so bad to get there by train and spend the week there riding Dutch trains all over the place, but man, the train journey there and back is just as long as a car trip (~10-12 hours) and costs at least twice as much. Looks like we'll be taking our 50 MPG car instead and since it will be the…

Take the night train via Regensburg (book via cd.cz) and arrive rested. Goes every Thursday

Night trains are great! Do you have to transfer in Regensburg? There used to be a direct Prague-Amsterdam night train going through Berlin. I met some weird people on it, great times :)

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had cities with free public transport in Germany. One example was the city of Templin in Brandenburg. The project was eventually abandoned because lots of people were just riding the busses out of boredom and busses were permanently full with costs exploding for the city. See: https://www.manager-magazin.de/unternehmen/artikel/nahverkeh...

First thing I thought of even though I never heard of this example: It's a terrible idea if you think about it with an economic mind. There are very few scenarios where making things "free" can actually provide a long term benefit for the public. The reason Communist economies don't work isn't because there's not enough wealth in society to guarantee a modest income for everyone. It's because once you take the incent…

> there's not enough wealth in society to guarantee a modest income for everyone

One should notice that there a no Communist economies anymore in Europe for more than 30 years. Democratic wellfare states provide in my opinion the best balance between individual incentives and social responsibility.

I would argue that a lot of state-managed sectors in various European countries work a lot better than in the US (health care, higher education, correction, ...). One has to look into the details to see what works better in which sector.

Extent and details are, of course, something that needs to be permanently evaluated. But in general there is enough wealth produced each year to provide everyone with an at least modest standard of living. However, the differences between the countries are still very large: GDP per capita in the EU is aprox. EUR 32.000, ranging from Luxemburg's EUR 114,000 to Bulgaria's EUR 10,000.

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