I disagree. The worst part of my day is getting up and forcing myself to get ready to go to a job I absolutely hate. Having to only do that 4 times a week versus 5 is far more important to me than getting home at 4pm instead of 6pm.
Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
181–190 of 312 posts
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#182Meanwhile in China... Excerpts below taken from the website https://996.icu/#/en_US What is "996"? 996 working, ICU waiting. A "996" work schedule refers to an unofficial work schedule (9a.m. ~ 9p.m., 6 days a week) that has been gaining in popularity. Serving a company that encourages the "996" work schedule usually means working for at least 60 hours a week. In early September 2016, it was said that 58.com (58同城, a…
Former "large China FAANG" employee here so I can speak authoritatively on this.
These things above fail to take in the culture aspect. Generally, "being present" is considered "work", so the idea is to be present in the office for all of these hours.
When "we" (Americans) showed up at 8a-9a, busted out an enormous of amount of code, email, meetings, etc then left at 4p-5p was quite a shock to our native compadres. One of the managers actually asked us to slow down as they weren't able to keep up and were causing problems.
A snooty person would claim "oh look how much better the American system is", but it's much more complex than that. First, the Chinese have a very interesting total life integration. You still get married at late biblical ages (15-19), your parents move in with you and take care of the kids, you generally don't own many things (including a house), and your job and coworkers are friends and very much part of your life; you'll eat three meals a day with them and talk long walks. Your job pace is much slower and therefore, hours much longer.
Americans tend to live these absurd double identities, where we have coworkers our spouses will never meet, and we rarely interact with said coworkers outside of work, which is quite a culture shock to the Chinese. There was just another thread on HN about "fundatory activities", and how badly they can go over, which simply wouldn't exist in China.
In the end, just a different system, based on completely different national ideals. It's hard to understand until you're there living and breathing it.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#183This is the great thing about remote working. When I worked in the office I felt like I needed to be seen working, even if I really wasn’t because, let’s face it, programming often requires time not working to allow your subconscious to figure out the solution to the problem you are working on. So I would have my butt in the seat, but wasn’t actually doing anything. Now with remote work I can go for a walk, do the di…
In my last on-site programming job I spent at least half of the time either talking with colleague about not (directly) work related stuff or I spent it in the break room. Nobody cared, we got our work done, everybody was happy.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#184Why not both? 4 days, 6 hours each. Hey employers reading this. Having a hard time finding software engineers? Offer me this and I will come running. I’ll be banging on your door with my resume. Think about it.
Let's go a step further: https://archive.iww.org/history/library/misc/Bekken2000/
Thank you for this amazing link!
4-day-workweek arguments from 1986 !!!
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#185Technically 4 days would be better because of the commute and extended weekends for the employee. But as an employer 6 hours workdays would be the best, you get basically the same value of your employees, since mostly office workers don't really work the 8 and also would make then free to study.
You could also go crazy and get a second or third job.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#186Can we agree that different people have different optimal working styles? Some people get everything done first thing in the morning and are useless in the afternoons. Some people can't get started until noon whatever their local time is. Some people can commit to 10 or 12 hour days, and if so, it's not fair to ask them to work 5 days a week at that rate. Some people work best in private offices, some at separated wo…
Agree 100% with this take. But my question is: how do you mesh all these types together and run an effective team/company? Or is that even possible?
By having agreed core hours.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
yes. people don't realize this, but IT'S OKAY to take a break... in my last office, besides dragging feet to get coffee it seemed people wouldn't even go stretch for 10 seconds. they even bought a brand new PS5 and NEVER even played for months and months (and it probably still accumulates dust over there...) it seemed inhumane - and crazy nobody told them it wasn't okay or anything... I like getting some sun, let the…
there's an unspoken rule to appear productive and "committed" while in the office, especially when everyone else - including your engineering manager - is doing it, you feel a pressure to do the same! same thing for not leaving home at 5pm sharp and waiting 15-30 mins before you allow yourself to leave it has to start from the top
If the weather is nice, you should leave at 3. To stay happy and motivated.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#188This is the great thing about remote working. When I worked in the office I felt like I needed to be seen working, even if I really wasn’t because, let’s face it, programming often requires time not working to allow your subconscious to figure out the solution to the problem you are working on. So I would have my butt in the seat, but wasn’t actually doing anything. Now with remote work I can go for a walk, do the di…
Absolutely. I never understood why taking mid-day breaks and relaxing wasn't encouraged when I was a full-time employee. Coworkers even mentioned it regularly during conversations that their problems always seemed to be solved while on a walk, in the shower, etc.
When I started my own business I made it absolutely clear to the people I hired that the workday is just when you start and when you finish, but everything in between (including breaks, walks, lunch, etc.) are all part of "work". It's not like when you go to lunch you just stop thinking about the hard problem you were working on, and even if you do stop thinking about it, that's an important part of the mental digestion process.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#189Meanwhile in China... Excerpts below taken from the website https://996.icu/#/en_US What is "996"? 996 working, ICU waiting. A "996" work schedule refers to an unofficial work schedule (9a.m. ~ 9p.m., 6 days a week) that has been gaining in popularity. Serving a company that encourages the "996" work schedule usually means working for at least 60 hours a week. In early September 2016, it was said that 58.com (58同城, a…
Former "large China FAANG" employee here so I can speak authoritatively on this. These things above fail to take in the culture aspect. Generally, "being present" is considered "work", so the idea is to be present in the office for all of these hours. When "we" (Americans) showed up at 8a-9a, busted out an enormous of amount of code, email, meetings, etc then left at 4p-5p was quite a shock to our native compadres. O…
Even so, what's the point of "being present" at work and not actually working? I'd rather spend that time with my family or friends.
Re: Ask HN: 6-hour workdays more important than 4-day workweeks IMO
#190I disagree. The worst part of my day is getting up and forcing myself to get ready to go to a job I absolutely hate. Having to only do that 4 times a week versus 5 is far more important to me than getting home at 4pm instead of 6pm.
Do your best to not feel trapped. If you do, try to figure out how to escape. If you’re miserable everyday at work, plan an exit.