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9-Euro-Ticket

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Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#231

Post by felurx »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #161
kappuchino wrote: post #127

For anyone wondering why 9€? Not 10€ or 15€ or ... - its consistent with 101 consumer psychology. First: Its not free, its subsidized by the state. Free would suggest for some "not worth it". Not you, most likely, but this is why some free offers are not taken (seriously). If you want to see what free does, look for the Luxemburg experient: https://www.mobiliteit.lu/en/tickets/free-transport/ Second: Higher price poi…

Sweden does something similar, they offer unlimited regional rail passes for 1-2 month period during the summer - theirs are quite a bit more expensive than this though. I think closer to 100-150 euro for 2 months if I remember correctly.

I think most federal states in Germany have regional tickets for students for the summer vacations. It's probably going to vary a good bit, but here in BW it's 25~30€ for the ~1.5 months.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#232

Post by Escapado »

FabHK wrote: post #206
Escapado wrote: post #75

I would argue making it free and keeping it free would have been a cool move. - Less/no expensive accounting - Less/no personnel for checking tickets - Less/no personnel for prosecuting people who don't have tickets - Less/no ticket vending machines (and all the maintenance that comes with it) - Less traffic on the roads since you can't beat "free" and hence less emissions (at least in hamburg trains operate on green…

> - Less/no expensive accounting Not quite. Many people (eg commuters) have monthly train passes, almost all students have a "Semesterticket" (university enrolment is about 350 EUR every half year, but that includes all public transport in the region). Now, the 9-Euro-Ticket is cheaper than those options, so out of fairness the holders of all those tickets are getting a refund of 3 months worth of their pass minus 3x…

You are right, however if it would have been made free and kept free indefinitely this would have been a one-time cost.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#233

Post by Tomte »

germanier wrote: post #147
MandieD wrote: post #51

Very important caveat for all of you who are thinking, “woo hoo, no need to buy that EuRail pass! Or to buy an expensive ICE ticket!” These tickets are good for all “Nah- und Regionalverkehr,” explicitly excluding ICE, IC, EC (international) and long-distance busses (like the one between Munich and Zürich) If the train number begins with RE or RB, you’re good, but of course, those are the slow ones that stop in every…

> If the train number begins with RE or RB, you’re good A few days ago Deutsche Bahn has started to label some trains with an RE number (e.g. running Norddeich-Bremen or Stuttgart-Singen) with "9-Euro-ticket not valid".

The RE from Stuttgart to Singen (I used to ride that train regularly and did so recently again) has been co-labeled "IC" for some time now, even though the rolling stock is distinctly RE.

It has been confusing even before the 9 Euro ticket.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#234

Post by metacritic12 »

MandieD wrote: post #51

Very important caveat for all of you who are thinking, “woo hoo, no need to buy that EuRail pass! Or to buy an expensive ICE ticket!” These tickets are good for all “Nah- und Regionalverkehr,” explicitly excluding ICE, IC, EC (international) and long-distance busses (like the one between Munich and Zürich) If the train number begins with RE or RB, you’re good, but of course, those are the slow ones that stop in every…

Thank you for the disclaimer of the speed. Useful for travelers to note the time difference!

Yet there is no need to guilt people into it being "German only". The ticket is priced on the slow trains so it already selects for people who care more about money than time. Anyone who chooses a 9 Euro, 4-hour train over a dozens of Euro 1.5 hour train is already not the "upper class".

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#235

Post by swarnie »

amin wrote: post #222

In Luxembourg, all public transport is free for everyone. I was just there, and as a tourist, it saved me a lot of hassle not needing to figure out where and how to buy which ticket. Jump hop on any train, bus or tram :). And yes, I understand why this wouldn't work well in other countries.

While interesting, it doesn't seem like a fair comparison.

Luxembourg has more tax evading corporations registered than actual people. I'm sure i can make a public transport system work well for free given those conditions.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#236

Post by Archelaos »

pwdisswordfish0 wrote: post #194
Archelaos wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would argue making it free and keeping it free would have been a cool move. Here in Germany, there were many voices in favour of making the ticket completely free. What I heard about the reason for not doing so is that the government wanted to easily measure the actual demand in different regions for such a "free" ticket. So the price is low enough that anybody who wants to ride practically "for free" is buying i…

>I expect that if the ticket is a success, it will be replaced by real free rides in the future. What’s your confidence level here? Because if you can make me believe that the ticket is effectively a vote for ticketless/free ÖPNV I will buy them for everyone I know.

There is support for this idea across MPs of multiple parties, from Conservatives, Liberals, Greens and Labour/Left. It appears to be a comparatively cheap measure to reduce CO2 footprint (I am not an expert here, though, so this might be incorrect, but one hears this argument a lot) and at the same time an easy measure to improve mobility for the poor. (Thousands of people went to jail in Germany every year because they repeatedly travelled without a ticket and could not or prefered not to pay the panalty fee.) So the zeitgeist is very much in favour of it, and ecological topics (in the wider sense) are becoming more and more important for people's decission what party to vote for. So what initially were niche topics of the Greens are becoming increasingly popular and more so, when they coincide with goals of other parties, such as social policy ideas from Labour/Left and the trade unions or the administrative simplifications ideas of the Liberals. Note also that Germany is already heavily subsidising its local puplic transport, with the effect that everyone pays taxes for tickets that only a minority uses.[1]

[1] At a moment's notice, I could only find old estimates from 2008 that amount to 25 billion Euros per year (more than 300 Euros per inhabitant per year) for local and regional transport (not including long distance transport) as of which only 9 billion Euros (35%) were paid directly from tickets or similar. This means 16 billion (65%) were already payed by the public (aprox. 200 Euro per inhabitant per year) -- see: https://www.zukunft-mobilitaet.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/0... (in German).

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#237

Post by p_l »

GuB-42 wrote: post #123
Bayart wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I couldn't imagine why not. The single market. Refusing to sell to other EU citizens is very illegal.

Not illegal as far as I know. These are almost certainly subsidized tickets, financed with taxpayer money, it is common to restrict the sales to those who pay taxes in the covered area. And I don't see how it could be illegal, it is like forcing Germany to provide health care for the French and vice versa.

AFAIK the legal way to limit subsidized tickets is that the specific "membership" required to get the subsidized fare is available to all EU citizens - for example in Warsaw we can get lower fare based holographic stamp available from the city on the basis of paying taxes in the city - i.e. it doesn't matter what passport you hold, it matters that your tax residency is in Warsaw.

And healthcare operates by your local health system reimbursing the system in country you were visiting - you need to have European Health Insurance Card on you, from your healthcare provider, which helps route the payments appropriately.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#238

Post by Tomte »

mbg721 wrote: post #92
butterlesstoast wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the Americans. Converting from euros to USD and liters to gallons, gas is roughly $12 a gallon at this moment.

Out of curiosity, for people who live in small towns/villages in Germany, how much driving is expected on a typical day? Most Americans commute about half an hour, twice a day, right?

If you're living in the surrounding area of a larger city where you're working, I'd say half an hour to an hour is normal/average. With traffic jams sometimes double that.

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#239

Post by FabHK »

chrisseaton wrote: post #109
Freak_NL wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit cards aren't regular in Europe. They accept Maestro debit cards though, which almost everyone has, and cash.

> Credit cards aren't regular in Europe. Pretty sure it's just Germany being pig-headed about it for some reason. Everywhere else in Europe is perfectly happy to accept a credit card. I do 99.999% of all my spending on a credit card, like most millennial people or younger, and the only people in the developed world who this is a problem for is the Germans.

To be fair, I find it absolutely absurd that credit card companies siphon off 3% or so of all retail purchases, and then distribute a part of it back to their "most valuable customers" in the form of miles and cash backs and similar time-consuming nonsense. It is redistribution from the poor, those using cash and those not being able to pay off credit cards in full, to the rich.

The EU has imposed caps on these interchange fees [1], which is one reason Europeans are not inundated by junk mail offering credit cards, and may be a reason that credit cards are not ubiquitous. Having said that, I find that I can pay electronically in most places, including Deutsche Bahn ticket machines (or just buy them in the app).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_fee#European_Union

Re: 9-Euro-Ticket

#240

Post by germanier »

kuschku wrote: post #216
jstummbillig wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the train number begins with RE or RB, you’re good, but of course, those are the slow ones that stop in every village along the way. Well, that is not exactly true now, is it. REs do actually skip the vast majority of "villages" and are far from being the slow ones, comparatively. Anyway, for comparisons sake here is some Hamburg -> Berlin options: - By car (with low traffic, according to GMaps): 3h20 - Regional…

Actually, the Hamburg-Berlin IRE should be covered by this ticket as well, which requires no changes at all.

That train isn't running since 2020 and last December they have announced that won't be coming back for the foreseeable future.
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