Live data from Hacker News

The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

old.reddit.com

131–140 of 187 posts

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#131
post #68

In return, I would ask them couple questions before going through the process. * What is the salary range? * Who was the person coming up with the interview questions? * What is that person's psychological profile? * What is that person's biggest achievement since high school? * Who are the people working in the team? * What are those people's psychological profile? * What're their education levels? * What're their w…

* What is the salary range?

That of course will vary based on role, experience and location. We have hired people from 50+ countries which is remarkable for a company of 800. We tend not to hire in the most expensive locations because we get fantastic talent who live in less polluted, congested and occasionally self-important environments.

We do pay competitively; we have hired people out of FAANGs, and we constantly benchmark pay against our market data around the world. True remote work is worth an extra 20%, and quality of colleagues and focus is priceless. We also rigorously assess pay raises for gender equity.

* Who was the person coming up with the interview questions?

That would be me, mostly. I generally would have reviewed them, though occasionally some slip by.

Some of the role-specific questions would be from the hiring lead on the role, who is usually a senior person in that part of the business who has been through an onboarding process run by our global head of HR and me, and who handles applications for multiple jobs. These hiring leads are less susceptible to bias, and more experienced, than first-level managers, and it frees the first-level managers to focus on their teams and get good at being managers.

* What is that person's psychological profile?

If you are asking about my psychometric profile, I scored 94 on the test we use. If you really mean psychological profile, I don't know. I've been called all sorts of things over the years, but not by professionals ;)

* What is that person's biggest achievement since high school?

That would depend on what one values.

As a student I helped a small newspaper in Cape Town be one of the first in the world to be online. Started a company, Thawte, that helped lots of businesses outside the US get certificates for secure trading. Sold that well, and then trained to join a flight crew on Soyuz to the ISS. Ran several experiments in space, including the first stem cell experiments, which helped shape stem cell therapy research here on earth. Started a foundation which has funded tens of social change leaders working in health, digital, civil society and environmental areas. Started Ubuntu to democratise access to open source, made some mistakes but stuck with it to help Canonical survive and now thrive. Learned not to yell at people, learned to hire, hired hundreds of people. I also have helped start some botanical gardens because I like them, and am active in helping a small country chart a course for themselves that has made a measurable difference to the lives of that population. What, I wonder, do you value?

* Who are the people working in the team?

They are generally outstanding technically and socially, from all over the world, with a strong sense of shared mission to help open source be easier and cheaper to consume, personally and professionally, for companies and individuals.

* What are those people's psychological profile?

They vary greatly, it's useful to shape teams that complement one another.

* What're their education levels?

Generally but not exclusively they have undergraduate and graduate degrees.

* What're their work experience?

That varies widely, we hire both new graduates and people who could happily retire but like what we do and how we do it.

* What're their biggest achievement since high school?

If you can get a place in the company, you could ask them yourself.

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#132
post #17

I jumped through their hoops once, only to be told that they prefer to hire active contributors from the community. No unpaid internship, no job.

Either that was a mistaken position by the hiring lead, or they were just shy to tell you that you were not the best candidate. Either way, my apologies.

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#133
post #35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tragic irony there though is that Canonical commits very little engineering effort to contributing to upstream projects that they don't control. They'll fix a few bugs that are affecting customers, but there's no generalised effort to grow the garden they live in.

Which is a huge difference from Red Hat, which contributes heavily and is very good at leveraging the resulting control of important projects to their advantage. It's why they keep out-maneuvering Canonical, as far as I can tell.

Red Hat is 20x the size of Canonical, by revenue. We more than hold our own.

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#134
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Redhat got bought out no?

They did, but they still seem to be clearly leading among commercial linux distros, and the software they push keeps getting adopted while Canonical's does not. To me this reads as strategic maneuvering by Red Hat within the Linux ecosystem, and they're doing great at it, from what I can tell. I write that as someone who finds them to have astonishingly poor taste and wishes they would knock it off, so I'm no Red Hat…

Snaps are pretty fantastic for IoT, which is where we started. We have some sucky things to fix for snaps on the desktop, such as astartup performance and permission handling when you want to go outside the sandbox, but we will fix those.

If you really care about security and reliability across multiple Linux distros, then containerised software distribution is particularly challenging. But it's a fun technical challenge, and we have an amazing team that's dedicated to getting it right.

Our goal is very secure, very reliable, very seamless software distribution across any Linux, and as far as I am concerned it's great that there are multiple teams working to figure out that hard problem. How lucky for you that we're not all just stuck with one option!

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#135
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, that seems fair given that they are pretty community focused. You might view it as an unpaid internship, but my own contributions to open source and the community have always gotten me jobs. I view it as extracurricular activity... similar to what they pushed us to do in high school for getting into college.

>To be honest, that seems fair given that they are pretty community focused. That's Debian not Ubuntu/Canonical.

Really.

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#136
post #53

Psychometric assesssments, eh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychometrics > such measurements are often misused by laymen, such as with personality tests used in employment procedures.

I think that quote says the opposite of what you seem to imply it does. It says that bullshit like Myers Briggs is misused by laymen. That implies that actual psychometric tests done by experts can be correctly used. The real headscratcher though is that either Canonical thinks psychometrics work, but still bother with all the other nonsense; or they don't think they work but still leave it in in such a long hiring p…

Psychometrics work, but they are only one dimension. Interviews and competence assessments give us other perspectives on a candidate. For a single role we will have 500-3,000 applications, each step of the process helps select the best.

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#137
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 80% are good submissions it’s a useless filter and should be dropped.

> If 80% are good submissions it’s a useless filter and should be dropped. How did you arrive at this conclusion? I can easily imagine that this process is so laborious that plenty of people don't even submit anything. Like the person who wrote about this on reddit. -- Now what reason would we have to think that the people who don't want to go through the process would also be 80% good? This may be a very valuable fi…

Indeed.

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#138
post #27

Discussed a while ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30735678

An exchange from that thread: > > there is absolutely zero chance anyone on the other end is going to take the time to actually read and evaluate each of them > This is understandable to think, but is simply wrong -- I know because I'm a software engineer at Canonical who helps review these written submissions. They're sometimes read and reviewed by our CEO, though often he delegates that out to a pool of us reviewer…

This is not a South African thing :)

The written interview serves multiple purposes.

First, it is a response to a massive flow of applications. We can more fully and fairly assess those who show they are willing to do some work to be part of our company.

Second, it helps address bias. The written interview is not a resume, which a hiring manager would read through bias like "I recognise that university" and "I like that country". The written interview is anonymous work, which can be assessed more objectively. We get it assessed, twice, anonymously, in the common case. For my roles, more than 100 people at the company help me with this, and I'm grateful to them for the work they do.

Third, it helps us focus our resources. We have very light resume screening requirements - be a plausible candidate from somewhere in the world - but we spend a LOT of time on the written interview, and interviews. So for those candidates who show they care, they have insights, and they are quick on the uptake, we can spend a lot more time on them.

Fourth, it helps avoid repetition. We can share a written interview with interviewers later in the process, and they get a lot of context on the candidate very quickly. They don't always read it before meeting the candidate, but they can and they should.

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#139
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's merit to the idea of having a writing sample from a candidate. If you want to know that a candidate can communicate effectively, you'll want to both hear them talk and read their writing. That said, I'm not sure whether or not these interview processes were set up with that in mind. If they were, they should also consider that writing can take a long time to produce and so the writing sample should be adjuste…

IME, writing something short and well is significantly harder than writing something long and well.

Famously, paraphrasing, "my apologies for the long letter, but I did not have the time to write a short one" :)

Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give

#140

I feel like it is hard enough to hire people, especially good devops, why turn people off this badly?

Lots of people won't do this work, it's true. But the ones who will, are much more likely to make phenomenal colleagues. They care, they are focused, they are diligent. Things work better when you are in a team with more of that. Try it someday.
Post reply on HN