These are such inane questions. > What was your first Linux distribution, and why did you start there? "Red Hat Linux, and I started there because I found a CD to install it in the cover of Red Hat Linux For Dummies at my local library." What does that say about my qualifications for the job? I can scarcely imagine. Clearly the questions are prompting for answers that will be evaluated in some vague bullshit way, so…
> What was your first Linux distribution, and why did you start there? Mandrake Linux because it was the only one that worked with my 56k Zyxel modem ;)
The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
121–130 of 187 posts
Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Standardized aptitude and personality tests These are almost always extremely discriminatory when it comes to neurodiverse populations and I'm saddened that Canonical uses the equivalent of phrenology in its hiring process. sigh
> the equivalent of phrenology I mean, there are plenty of bad tests out there (Meyers Briggs etc.), but good aptitude and personality tests might well be the best (objective, reliable, valid...) tests of aptitude and personality there are, no?
But, suppose you did have a degree and specialized training in these tests. Do you think such a person can reasonably predict job performance and fit? It's reading tea leaves. The two biggest predictors of on the job performance is first, previous on the job performance and then general intelligence. After that it is all noise. You can go to an office and talk to a shrink for weeks and they still won't really grasp how you think or be able to make predictions about your future. If you dispute that, show me the research.
It's phrenology and biases all wrapped under the blanket of "objectivity".
Example of bias: Test X output Y shows correlation with OTJ performance (really, peer reviewed and all that). Cool! Correlation, not equivalence. Which means at least some portion of the population will do poorly on the test, but great at the job, and vice versa. What are the chances that neurodiverse people are in that category, or women, or blacks in a white culture, or.... And, regardless of that, suppose you are one of the people, in no particular protected or disadvantaged group, that does poorly. Should you never get hired, or get offered lower pay/responsibilities, because you do bad on this standardized test that gets run by so many companies? Is this what we want from society? Even pretending that the person seeing the results of the test in fact has the training and ability to interpret the results. There are cultures where they tend to show up as lying on these tests, but it is a cultural artifact. We know this. And a real medical professional consider the tests as indicative or suggestive - a point from which to start. Are you actually paranoid, or did you have a bad test day, or does your culture value something that pings poorly on the test? You don't know without a lot more investigation. HR is merely going to say "pass". Well, they'll ghost you, but anyway.
I'm sure someone can come up with some good examples of tests (well, maybe not sure, but I'll credit it is possible), but these tests all seem to be someone's hobby horse, promoted because it makes things seem objective and fair (so we don't get sued!), or because it is woo.
I've overstated my case a bit, but cmon. No one interviewing is a doctor, they shouldn't be using tests designed for medical relevance, and we should strive for inclusiveness. Can you code and not insult your interviewer while being questioned? Sounds like a hire to me. Oh, the MMPI says you are on the introverted side, or have issues with depression? Go fuck off, interviewee? I don't want to live in that world.
Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
#123Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Asking me how I did in high school when I graduated over a decade ago is just completely pointless. It is in no way representative of who I am now.
High school is relevant for people don't do much after high school. It shows the level of expectation they have for their candidates.
Odd that Canonical would want such people.
Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
#125Sounds like their application process works. If someone is unwilling to fill out a basic questionnaire they are probably aren't a good candidate. The questions seem reasonable and they aren't asking for you to write a book for each one.
I ain't writing a fairly-long essay that includes a ton about what I did in high school(?!), for a chance at a job, unless the comp is insane .
Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, it would take me a few hours too. I just wanted to undercount the projected time, in the event there were “I could do this in X minutes” responses. But yes, it would take me a few hours to do this too.
But then, how many job applications do you do? Maybe Canonical wants to filter out people that apply to hundreds of firms, and only consider those for whom Canonical is on the short list - and a list short enough that a few hours spent on those questions is not a big deal. (Side note: it's kind of a Proof of Work...)
We had 110,000 applications to Canonical last year, which is a lot to process for a company of 800. We offer a very high-quality remote-first employment experience, with international travel twice a year for up to two weeks so teams can plan, bond and play. That's attractive to a lot of people.
Candidates these days apply for between 5 and 75 roles in a batch, and I'm pretty focused on selecting for people who genuinely care about open source and the role we can play in making it a level playing field with high quality developer and production experiences.
About 30% of the people who are moved to written interview submit them, so it does serve to separate out those who understand our mission and are excited about it, from those who just clicked on our link along with 50 others.
The written interview also helps reduce culture and gender bias in our hiring.
Given that we hire globally we know that the people reading the candidate resume may not have context on the resume norms and expectations in the culture and place that the candidate comes from. We ask them to move any plausible candidate to written interview, and then we generally have the written interview reviewed twice by two separate people, in an anonymized fashion so the reviewer can only assess what's there, with no bias from resume.
Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
#127These are such inane questions. > What was your first Linux distribution, and why did you start there? "Red Hat Linux, and I started there because I found a CD to install it in the cover of Red Hat Linux For Dummies at my local library." What does that say about my qualifications for the job? I can scarcely imagine. Clearly the questions are prompting for answers that will be evaluated in some vague bullshit way, so…
Funny enough, I have a great answer to this question - my first distro was exactly Ubuntu, in 2005. They shipped me a couple of dozens of CDs that I distributed in my city, mainly to my collagues and members of the local LUG. I think I still have some CDs from this batch.
Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
#128These are such inane questions. > What was your first Linux distribution, and why did you start there? "Red Hat Linux, and I started there because I found a CD to install it in the cover of Red Hat Linux For Dummies at my local library." What does that say about my qualifications for the job? I can scarcely imagine. Clearly the questions are prompting for answers that will be evaluated in some vague bullshit way, so…
Well, as a start, it is a loaded question But I get it. They're trying to get people that "love linux". It's part of the cultural fit, sure Now think for a bit about hiring for people that "love something" and what does that tell about the professional environment of that company. Wouldn't it be better if they actually hired people that are good at the job? For all the talk about diversity and inclusion, this is a ve…
It makes for more interesting meetings, more interesting ideas, more interesting software. I love what I do, and I choose to set things up to maximise the chance that the people around me are equally excited about what impact we could have in the world.
Life is short, the way I want to use it is to help people who contribute to open source - all open source - have the biggest possible impact from their generosity. By making open source easy and cheap to consume and rely on in production, I think we amplify the contributions of others, and I feel very good about that. We also try to innovate on pieces of the landscape, and those are fun too.
But you may be confusing the first step of our hiring process - the written interview - with the whole of the process.
If someone does well on the written interview, which is usually twice-assessed and done so on an anonymous basis, they get additional screening tests and interviews to assess professionalism and experience and competence, which helps us place them in the best part of the company for them. It also helps them learn about us and how we work to make sure that they are making the right choice for the next segment of their career.
In the past I think we over-prioritised passion-for-Linux relative to competence, and we paid a price for that. So now I'm pretty focused on looking for both, and ensuring discipline in the offers we make across the whole company.
Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
#129I noticed this last year when I applied for a software engineering job. For that position, the process is: - Initial screening (done) - Personal essay (this stage) - Standardized aptitude and personality tests - Meet and greet with an engineer - General interview(s) - Recruitment screen - Technical assessment - Role-specific interview(s) - Hiring manager interview - Senior leadership interview I highly doubt the init…
I personally screened 40,000 resumes last year, and hired 100+ people into the company. It has been very exciting to see how we are lifting our confidence and aspirations as a result.
Re: The bulls**t Canonical wants you to jump through before they will give
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the equivalent of phrenology I mean, there are plenty of bad tests out there (Meyers Briggs etc.), but good aptitude and personality tests might well be the best (objective, reliable, valid...) tests of aptitude and personality there are, no?
So, what training do you suppose anyone has in interpreting these tests? No one in the hiring loop is a trained psychologist, why would I want you to try to interpret the results of the MMPI or whatever? First of all, and I know the law says differently, but this is medical information. I'm not sharing the MRIs of my back (which you also can't interpret), and I'm not sharing mental health information either. But, sup…