Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency” • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#121

Post by protomyth » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 8:29 PM UTC

gte910h wrote: post #118

protomyth wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That study seems to draw all its conclusions from inner city / low income. I would submit it is not a model for the rest of the country unless further testing is done in other environments. story: A couple of decades ago I used to work on grants and educational programs. One group came to ND to give a lecture on risk factors. In Minot ND, they told the crowd that "firearms" automatically means more violence. "It has…

I'd contend communities with a large number of handguns (but no rifles) probably does have a crime problem, it's just likely the guns are a response to it, less than a cause.

Well, ND gun ownership and murder rates by means would seem to make your contention false. ND which has a large number of handguns per capita, had 2 murders in 2008 and both were stabbings.

Its not the guns or any other object, its the conditions and attitudes that make a place dangerous. Dangerous people will use the weapons they have or improvise weapons (IED) if they have none.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#122

Post by philwelch » Fri, Oct 21, 2011, 11:51 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #34

9999 wrote: post #6

>keep schools open until 6 Sounds great, how do you fund it? >keep school in session 11 months out of the year Ditto. >let principals hire/fire based on merit Seems legit, do we really have to BREAK the unions to do that? The teacher unions have many legitimate reasons for their existence regardless of some of their negative attributes. >relax regulations on building factories Is that really what's holding manufactur…

"Is that really what's holding manufacturing back here?" While I also have various ideological preconceptions about the source of the economic problems in the US and elsewhere, I would observe that when someone like the CEO of Apple is expressing an opinion about what makes a factory easier to open in China than in the US, someone who has actually been the guy-who-can-say-yes to actual factories for which that decisi…

It's worth noting that during the Macintosh and NeXT days, Steve was fanatical about building computer factories in California. It was probably a lot of very hard-learned lessons that got him to accept Apple's arrangement with Foxconn.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#123

Post by rick888 » Sat, Oct 22, 2011, 3:46 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #110

Duff wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure these studies have been debunked in the past. I tend to agree with the debunking, because the arguments against summer vacation always stand up a strawman with the assumption that "good parents" send kids to camp, take the summers off, etc. None of my circle of friends went to camp. We played outside, hung out with grandparents, etc. My parents weren't teachers, so they didn't have summers off. Person…

> Personally, I lived for summer vacation until I was like 14. If you took that away, it would have negatively affected me, and many others. I honestly think this is a product of society and not some intrinsic driver for kids in school. Would a 14 year old me like it if someone told me summer vacation was canceled? No. But if I had been in a system with a shorter summer vacation from the beginning, I don't think I wo…

"No. But if I had been in a system with a shorter summer vacation from the beginning, I don't think I would care too much."

I suppose it's like someone that lives in North Korea: They don't know the freedoms they are missing because they've never had them.

" Summers were usually spent playing a lot of video games and going on boring camping trips with various relatives. At the time I loved the break, but I can hardly remember a summer where something really interesting and eventful happened."

Most of my favorite childhood memories happened during summer vacation. The thing is, once you are older..you can't ever re-create that time of complete freedom because you have life responsibilities. I don't want to take that a way from kids.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#124

Post by rick888 » Sat, Oct 22, 2011, 3:52 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #87

gwright wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea if the math works as you say but the federal government doesn't fund primary education. That is all done at the local and state level and so it isn't just a matter of tweaking the federal budget (as if that itself was easy). I think the bigger problem is that teacher's unions have created a calcified public education system that is risk and change adverse. Hard to experiment with new ideas in that envi…

> teacher's unions have created a calcified public education system that is risk and change adverse. Child from the 80s here. I've had just about every teaching method crammed down my throat through the 90s. This includes more homework, more lectures, socratic desk arrangements, independent study, peer review, group work, class review, and many others I care not to remember. I have never heard any teacher say, "my un…

Why does everyone defend the unions so much here? They are the reason we have a sub-par education system in the US. Teachers get automatic raises not based on merit and it's very difficult to fire a bad teacher. Until this problem is fixed (which the unions likely won't fix on their own), the other things you try aren't really going to help.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#125

Post by rick888 » Sat, Oct 22, 2011, 3:55 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #22

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #10

"Conservative" or just gets shit done? Maybe the real reason why we don't get shit done in this country is because we're so preoccupied with these worn-out ideologies. What if Jobs was right? What if it's too damn hard to build factories in America?

Worn-out ideologies? Pretty much everything that Jobs is credited with saying in the article is a worn-out ideology. Bust unions! Remove regulations and cut workers' rates! Government needs to be more business-friendly! And what's more, I don't like the menu! Hardly fresh thinking, let alone innovative and non-ideological.

When many regulations and unions that won't fire bad teachers are the norm, it's fresh thinking.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#126

Post by Duff » Sat, Oct 22, 2011, 4:31 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #113

Duff wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is one issue, time is another. In most US jurisdictions, dozens of entities have the ability to say "no" to a development project. In states that are actively hostile to business, like New York or California, there may be hundreds of people or groups that can slow down projects. Examples: Local Zoning Board; Whomever controls permits for running utilities; State/local environmental boards (Lots and lots of $$$…

>n states that are actively hostile to business, like New York or California If you think things are easier in Finland, then you're wrong. Turns out this is a specific case looking for a specific type of factory that could make a specific car on a specific contract. Your right-wing screed is not as convincing as you think it is. I'm not even going to point out how huge NY and Cali economies are. >n China or Brazil, y…

You've declared me a right-wing nut and then stuff words in my mouth. Thanks.

I'm not an expert in California, but I happen to live in Upstate NY and pay careful attention to what is (or isn't) going on. The size of the New York economy is an illusion in many ways; New York lives and dies on the back of a single industry -- Finance. That wasn't true 30-40 years ago. The valleys and lakefront between Buffalo and Albany were industrial powerhouses well into the 70s. In the early 20th century, Buffalo was one of the nations great cities, today, it's more like Detroit.

I'd also suggest that you read about the major economic development project going on in New York right now, the construction of a multi-billion dollar chip fab for Global Foundries just outside of Saratoga Springs, NY. Total cost of that project is something like $7 billion, with just under $3 billion being provided by the State of New York under various guises. That's what it takes to do manufacturing in the US today -- even with high-end manufacturing which requires extremely skilled labor.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#127

Post by rdl » Sun, Oct 23, 2011, 2:17 AM UTC

gte910h wrote: post #45

loggedintocom wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any research that indicates that more time in school leads to better educational outcomes?

Yes, for lower income student it has * stupendously* good outcomes.

Sounds like something for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation...

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#128

Post by drinian » Sun, Oct 23, 2011, 5:49 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #4

An 11 month school year would be a nightmare and screw up summer activities. Plus, the misalignment of HS and College schedules will hurt advanced students. School going to 6pm in the northland is a non-starter and dangerous. (getting a little sick of the down votes without comment)

A lot of people in this thread seem to think that being in school until 5 or 6 PM would mean being in the classroom for ten hours a day or more.

That additional time would be fantastic if used for athletics, self-study, club activities (with a lot of personal freedom for the students), and so on.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#129

Post by gte910h » Wed, Oct 26, 2011, 5:31 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #121

gte910h wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd contend communities with a large number of handguns (but no rifles) probably does have a crime problem, it's just likely the guns are a response to it, less than a cause.

Well, ND gun ownership and murder rates by means would seem to make your contention false. ND which has a large number of handguns per capita, had 2 murders in 2008 and both were stabbings. Its not the guns or any other object, its the conditions and attitudes that make a place dangerous. Dangerous people will use the weapons they have or improvise weapons (IED) if they have none.

You misunderstood my statement I think: I'm saying 1> Handguns with no rifles is a situation you get when people feel they need personal protection, aka, high crime. I'm saying they are an effect, rather than a cause 2> North Dakotans probably have a large number of rifles as well, so don't fit that profile.

Re: Steve Jobs to Obama: “You’re headed for a one-term presidency”

#130

Post by smithian » Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 4:43 PM UTC

anamax wrote: post #106

smithian wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDP does not account for the externalities that the study took into account.

> GDP does not account for the externalities that the study took into account. Externality estimates and valuations are notorious for reflecting the biases of the estimators. Estimates that are a large fraction of GDP are very suspicious. Do you seriously believe that the clean air act "saved" 1/6th of the US economy?

I hear what you are saying, but I think you're mixing units. Since the study is accounting for things that are not accounted for in GDP, It doesn't seem to make much sense to compare the dollar figure reached in terms of GDP. If GDP devalues human health as part of its basic assumptions, an analysis that does not devalue human health will come to different numbers. It's almost a tautology.